Tablo Discusses Whether Art Should Be Separated From The Artist

[crack.livejournal.com]

Tablo states, "I'm an artist, and I believe that the art should be separated from the artist. But should it? I don't know. It's a question people are always fighting about. Like, can we separate the two? Or should we separate the two? I'd like to, but sometimes it's hard"

Diane, the producer, thinks that there are plenty of other artists who can be given the same attention to rather than one who has done horrible things.


source: dive studios

Can you/should we separate artist from their art, omona?

Comments

[belintuchiha.livejournal.com]

I’m very black and white so no lol

Lots of groups/artists have been ruined for me cause of their screw ups so they can all fuck off. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[myrrhcat.livejournal.com]

you can separate art from the artist, but not if you're still supporting/promoting the artist by consuming their art. if you're emotionally attached to something but you find out the creator is a piece of shit, you can still enjoy it privately but don't spend money on it and don't tell others to check it out. (and oh god, especially don't make a public show of your guilt about still indulging in it.) and if you're looking for something new to get into, there's plenty of stuff out there that wasn't made by awful people.

with regards to the "canon" of great artists, as tablo is talking about, i don't think we should stop talking about influential artists even if they're horrible people, because there's no erasing that influence. but we should expand the canon to include more diverse and less problematic voices, and we should never discuss those problematic figures without bringing up their harmful actions. if someone like kubrick is in your personal top three filmmakers... it would be dishonest to try and force yourself to stop liking his work, but you should try to cultivate more of an appreciation for other filmmakers to knock him out of that spot, i think.

oh, and one last thing. you also can't separate the art from the artist if their prejudices impact their work (and they almost always do.) like for example, how people are trying to separate harry potter from jk rowling because of her antics? they want to enjoy the series "on its own," but you don't have to look too closely to see the racism, anti-semitism and transphobia woven into the text.

[petecarl.livejournal.com]

I agree.

[broadcities.livejournal.com]

i think i agree, especially because art forms hold such a emotional connection to people. most importantly, for problematic/horrible canonic artists, i believe that these people should be held accountable and that their harmful actions should be always included so the public can be educated (eg: not deduced to one sentence). and i also agree with you that the canon should always seek to include more diverse artists that give voice to underrepresented groups (who were probably harmed/excluded/mocked in some way by the canonic problematic artists)

[pikapika217.livejournal.com]

IA

[sheisagentleman.livejournal.com]

it's an uncomfortable conversation, for sure. but i always think of that graffiti i saw about polanski once

"if it had been your daughter. would you still separate art from the man?"

[aures.livejournal.com]

thanks for sharing that quote

[ashdevilrun23.livejournal.com]

I honestly can’t Polanski, woody Allen haven’t watched a single thing by both of them because of what they’ve done.
Nowadays I hear a Big Bang song and I jam then hear seungris voice and NOPE turned it off immediately.

All these men get away with murder I refuse to support them.

[benihime99.livejournal.com]

There's probably levels here
Allen or Celine can choke for all I care (Celine is dead but you get the idea).
Dali, I feel conflicted about for instance. Mostly because no one can be sure of anything with this one.

If we're talking about kpop it's different...
When Kai wore appropriative hairstyle for instance, the blame imo lies with sm producers not with a boy who has no power over what he eats for breakfast.
The solution here is also suite easy. E.g: I don't financially support YG and by doing so I don't support their artist either (altgough some have done nothing wrong).

So it's a layered issue, depends on what said artist has done, the context, and their own involvment/control, and maybe social environment upbringing?

[benihime99.livejournal.com]

XD
Omg no, poor Céline
I meant the author

[dior-chic.livejournal.com]

I know omona doesn’t really do comments of the year but this would be nominated for sure lol

[belintuchiha.livejournal.com]

In that case did Kai actually personally request that hairstyle tho?

[belintuchiha.livejournal.com]

Didn’t*

All I heard was him requesting for that hairstyle, not SM imposing it on him

[benihime99.livejournal.com]

There was rumors but I don't think there's anything official (and since I've learned from that red velvet fake mess I take rumors with a grain of salt)
Considering Kai has darker skin, I wouldn't be surprised SM groomed him to be the "ghetto bad boy"

[pourtant.livejournal.com]

i remember there being posts here with live footage of him saying at least once that he wanted to try that hair to go with the concept

[benihime99.livejournal.com]

do you have links by any chance?

[pourtant.livejournal.com]

lol i tried to do a quick search and failed but what i do know is that he mentioned it in that vlive show/interview exo did for kokobop.

honestly though imo regardless of whether a specific idol wanted that hairstyle or it was imposed on them by stylists, i think it's safe to safe that 99.9% of them don't get why some ppl find it offensive so it kind of makes no real difference to me.

[benihime99.livejournal.com]

ia, there's a lack of awareness and care (which we're all guilty of at some degree)

[klauses.livejournal.com]

damn this is hard to find LOL exo fans must have put in overtime trying to cover this one up

but yeah, i also distinctly remember it: exo did some interview during kokobop promotions and they mentioned that kai needs to be at the salon hours earlier than the other guys because of his new hairstyle. the interviewer(s) were like "wow that's a lot of effort just for a hairstyle" and kai said something like "well it's a reggae song so i had to have this hair for it"

it was definitely posted here but POOF it's gone, or i'm just blind

[benihime99.livejournal.com]

K-fandom could rule the world if they wanted to
And blackmail people with all the file they have on everyone

[sjtaazrz.livejournal.com]

It was during their vlive to promote the single "Ko Ko Bop." I did some digging back to the actual video to find it. You can watch it here (https://www.vlive.tv/video/35621). They mention it around 13:55. He says that he did the style before and fans didn't like it, but because of the Reggae-inspired sound he "couldn't help" but do it again.

Edit: I finished this comment before they wrapped up talking during this section. But, yikes, he even ends this hair talk with "ya mon."

[benihime99.livejournal.com]

Thank you for taking the time

"couldn't help it" despite knowing th fans didn't like it
That's... not surprisiing

[thebloomroom.livejournal.com]

I mean honestly I doubt Kai even cared, imitating black people is rooted in kpop at its core lol. im sure he thought it was a cool hairstyle. Im not giving him the baby treatment

[greasetastic-x.livejournal.com]

it's a naw from me dawg, I couldn't separate the art from the artist if I know that they're a piece of garbage. Of course, there are degrees to what I consider garbage but I still wouldn't do anything that would actively put money into their pocket.

[cosmicdaze.livejournal.com]

to me it depends i guess but mostly because i'm not as morally upstanding (?) as i try to be sometimes
but there are some western artists like chr*s br*wn and n*cki m*naj that i will never support because they're consistently terrible people

[benihime99.livejournal.com]

I feel it's easier for people like cb cause he's an actual criminal, there's no question there

I sometimes feel sad for nicki. I will never support her and her rapist bf but I wonder how she came to be like that. I know her bro situation but still, as a woman it baffles me. Her brother is her brother not everyone can cut ties, but she chose this man, why?

[countthesaints.livejournal.com]

No. Music doesn't exist in a vacuum and musicians deserve to be held accountable.

[goldenrosalie.livejournal.com]

no. most of the time art perfectly represents the artist (look at woody allen's whole filmography). and even if it doesn't (which is barely possible) - victims will always matter to me more than art. it's just not comparable.

[lightframes.livejournal.com]

Agreed. People matter more than movies.

[petecarl.livejournal.com]

I don't separate the art from the artist. Obviously, it's easier to do if someone is dead (so no money going to them) and the art isn't espousing the awful things that the creator did, but I wouldn't feel comfortable just lauding someone as an amazing creator. Like, I like some of Michael Jackson's music, but knowing what he did, even though the music isn't espousing nay of that, I still feel squicky listening to it.

For smaller infractions (like your fave is problematic levels), I may still consume their work, but I'll also be willing to admit to whatever they did/said was messed up, and I won't defend it. For example, a lot of artists I like have committed cultural appropriation. I don't defend it, and I might even bring it up if it's relevant. When it happens, I'll try to comment to them on social media about it, but I probably won't stop being a fan because of it.

I think of it like passing the practical driver's test. There are certain moves that ding points, and if you get too many points dinged, you fail to pass, and then there are automatic disqualifications. Sometimes people can retake the test, if they've shown improvement, but sometimes they're denied a license forever.

[petecarl.livejournal.com]

Not supporting MJ's stuff is good bc his family benefits from his estate and they use the money to cover up his crimes

Oh, I didn't even think of that. I'm gonna have to remember that for controversial artists going forward.

[mntsuklaa.livejournal.com]

For me it really depends on what was said/done.
Any kind of sexual misconduct/severe physical harm is an automatic and immediate disqualification, but if someone talks out of their ass or does something generally stupid I'm willing to give them one or two second chances in hopes that they'll pull themselves together... And if they refuse to learn then I simply give up ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[donutism.livejournal.com]

hmm i dunno like, i will never listen to a seungri song again. i never watched any woody allen or roman whatever his name is movies and i dont plan on starting

but while i dont actively listen to chris brown, if he is featured on a song and i like it i still listen to it...so i dunno aye.

[yakuniku-8.livejournal.com]

It's quite hard to answer. For artists from another century I think we should be aware of what they did and take it into account but it's another time and another context so it's better to explain rather that cancelling an exhibition.

For modern artists I guess they can still learn but most of the time they don't care. I don't know if it's a good thing when they apologize without meaning it.

[gigabytexx.livejournal.com]

Definitely can for me. I enjoy all of these entertainment solely for fun and I dont depend my life on it, so I tend to take the good part only and I dont care about the rest. Unless, if certain song brings bad memories towards certain someone I know irl. That one may affect me.

I personally only care about what makes me enjoy my moment rather than what's behind it.

[moronicus-kyla.livejournal.com]

For the living, it depends on the severity of what the artist did and whether they have done or can do anything to make up for it. People who make irresponsible statements can still redeem themselves - I'll side-eye them but they're not cancelled, as long as there is an effort to be a better person. But repeat offenders and people who have done irreversible damage to others thru murder and sexual assault are difficult to continue supporting. It's simply not worth it.

It can be a very tough call depending on the context of how you got exposed to someone's work and how much of an effect it had had on you. Sometimes, you find out about the creator's awfulness only after you've come to enjoy their work. In my case, I grew up watching Rurouni Kenshin with my friends and my grandma, so I have many fond memories of it. But then years later, it comes to light that its creator is an unapologetic lolicon who collects child porn and even got arrested/fined for it. The memories and attachment I had to his work are what they are, the impact has already been made and it's objectively still a good manga/show. But I do think new information on the creator does take a bit from the experience of enjoying his work the same way again. If anything, I'm even angrier that an artist I had admired had, at one point, used my support to fund his gross hobbies and, indirectly, the child porn industry :|

[goshipgurl.livejournal.com]

By supporting the art you're supporting the artist.

So no, don't seperate them. Why do people like Chris Brown or Kanye West still have a career? Because people say "I don't like them but their music is good"

[dior-chic.livejournal.com]

I have very mixed feelings, I’ll just throw my ramblings under a cut


For super serious offenses involving various types of abuse of living beings - absolutely not, no I’m not separating the art from the artist. As mentioned above, you can find reflection of their fucked up views in their work in some shape or form.

If it’s not abuse/vile act, I like the use from another user called ‘fractions’. Like YooA, I mentioned initially she was on notice for me - it’s not something I’m enforcing others to follow, it was just my personal mental note of ‘hey this rubs me the wrong way, I’ll keep an eye out if she continues this’. I’m not writing someone off for good, but I don’t have to support someone further if they continue a problematic behavior. Another example is Jihyo. I really like her, but technically she’s on ‘notice’ for me because she dressed like a Native American for Halloween. I can continue enjoying Twice’s music, but when the day comes when Jihyo releases a solo, I have two options that I set for myself - either I skip it, or I listen to it but give it no financial support.
If Jihyo genuinely learned that you can’t dress like a persons culture as a costume, hey that’s great! - but I doubt it was ever addressed in the first place, so how can a behavior be corrected then?

I do have to remind myself this is another country, that doesn’t have the same background as my perspective as an American. For example - Twice in their recent video had Team ‘Madonna, Michael Jackson, Bobby Brown’ and GOD I cringed at that selection lmao. But those are the names of their practice rooms, and MJ especially I’ve had to accept most of Korea probably has a positive opinion of him. That’s a situation where it bothers me but I’m not like CANCELLED!

I can give them a chance for growth since they don’t know the background of a difficult subject, but I also don’t have to support something I’m uncomfortable with. That’s why I try to be understanding at first, but I also get conflicted on how progress can be made if they don’t know what they did was wrong? I feel like it’s giving benefit of the doubt to make yourself feeling better about listening to their stuff, and I can’t speak for other people - but it’s an icky feeling for me. I wish I could just easily turn that feeling off but I can’t, my brain doesn’t work that way.

Sort of related, my ‘pet peeve’ in holding someone accountable is just complaining about it but still regularly consuming their content. ONTD does this ALL the time lmao, I find it very annoying. I mean we’re on a dead/dying website, how is your comment gonna hold them accountable - they’re not gonna see it, or in the case of kpop idols, they’re not seeking out stuff in English regularly. Once again I feel like this falls in excuse territory FOR ME- I gotta stress this lol, but personally feel like it’s another way to feel like you can consume their content still since you still like them, despite their fuck up. That’s not enough, it’s why action I think matters.

For action, i do think just cutting things out serves me best peace of mind (see YG) But I also think the easiest way is to not financially support someone who has views that perpetuate problems at large. I give VERY little money to kpop, and sometimes I think ‘oh I should buy more albums/merchandise’ but I honestly think it’s for the best I don’t. To take it to another level, listen to something off from YouTube/Spotify if you want to consume certain content but not support them. For example, I really liked Big Bang’s MADE series, but I deleted it all from my Spotify and if I want to revisit it again (even though I have no desire right now) I feel like I can use random uploads on SoundCloud or other apps.


Final disclaimer - I’m not forcing others to follow my views, just an idea how my inner workings on this goes on in my head. Just a girl who wishes things were different, but I mean this whole world would be in a better place and I wouldn’t have to ramble like I did here lmao.

[dior-chic.livejournal.com]

Cont


Another random thought, like Oh My Girl recently, it sucks because I invested years of listening to their music. I’m either going to do what I did above paragraph - listen to it on another platform, or just accept I have formed memories and attachment to their previous work and just cease pursuing their new stuff unless I see they put effort in change. But showing that effort in change is difficult because once again you’re relying on time passing and observing future behaviors, it’s not fixed instantly.

[lightframes.livejournal.com]

I read the whole thing lol

I agree with you, and also wanted to add even if I could separate the art from the artist in those serious cases, I still wouldn't - it's just music, it's not that serious, I can find something else to listen to.

[dior-chic.livejournal.com]

Exactly!! There are soooooo many artists and songs in the world, I can see if we only had 5 artists to choose from lmao but the selection available feels practically endless!

Plus like with my BB example - I love Bang Bang Bang 😩. But Dreamcatcher covered it. Sooooo I can honestly just use the DC version from here on out lol

And thank you for taking time to read my rambling 😂 I had more but LJ told me I had written too much, but I’m glad my point came across

[suggestivepeach.livejournal.com]

That MJ part made me cringe too. I’m like??? You rly don’t know what he did???? And then I remember that most people don’t know or care about MJ’s past, especially now that he’s dead. Maybe if he was still alive things would be different but I doubt it. His legacy is too strong. I can’t really listen to his songs the same way now. It’s pretty tainted. Same goes for shows like Glee which I recently revisited. Some of the jokes involving Puck just make me squirm knowing he was a terrible human being irl.

Also, I agree that cultural differences should be taken into consideration but not used as an excuse to justify poor choices.

As for the more minor offences, I find it easier to forgive celebs if they have a moment of ignorance once and never do it again. I’ve learned to know better than to hold these celebs up to be morally upstanding citizens all the time, but it’s when they continue that pattern of ignorant behaviour that becomes a problem to me. That’s why I’ve been so disappointed in Oh my girl recently.

Most people had forgotten or didn’t know about their previous racism/ignorance during the Windy Day era so all they had to do was !!!!! Not pull that shit again but now they’ve turned so many new fans off them for good. It’s such a shame, and their older releases will always hold a special place in my heart but I don’t think I can really support their new music without being reminded.

[gigabytexx.livejournal.com]

How do you even enjoy certain content once you know they're problematic but you still like their contents? I find it weird to me.

I keep thinking over and over regarding myself how I can totally separate between artist and the art; is it because I'm not American? Is it bec I started fangirling over celebrity (meaning watching their interviews/behind the scene etc other than their MVs) when I was already quite older, therefore I'm not really able to change my perspective? Is it that I'm just basically all-around ignorant person?

My favorite music mostly came from problematic artists. Bhadbhabie, CB, big bang, post malone, justin bieber, eminem, all sort of Kpop, Cpop, Jpop/Jrock that I dont really check their problematic history. For actors I always watch most Johnny Depp movies, for example. While I absolutely dont invest my time with western celebrities, I do check out their new contents. Like, if my friends asked me to go watch JD movie on cinema why would I refuse & ruin the fun (also possibly being called as weird for being emotionally invested in someone we dont know)?

In my case I only enjoy their content, knowing things about their background ruin it for me. And at the same time knowing my fav artist making big donations or doing all the good deeds doesn't move me too..... I was like, ow well great. Great artists like billie eillish, lady gaga etc also dont really interest me eventhough they do something good with their songs. Heck even my favorite BTS who keeps promoting 'social issues', 'love yourself campaign' those things dont affect me at all. I'm just here for the nice songs, the pretty face, and the funny shows.

And I've read the reply below about "it's just music, it's not that serious" well isn't it true? it's just..... idk, a persona? Songs, movies.... it's all for entertainment. Like "ahhh this song is so good! Who's the singer? Oh this person! I love his voice so much. I'm gonna check out his other songs." and it stops right there ^^;
I don't think I would listen to a cover of my favorite song UNLESS the cover sounds nicer than the original lol. (But I still listen to both in case I wanted to sing it perfectly at the karaoke.)

So to sum it up for me I mainly only look at their creative contents, because those are what entertained me and not their personality. If I have to stan a personality then there's no fangirling for me, because nobody's perfect. Human is never perfect.