The King Loves Ep 37-40 (Final) Discussion Post

[keytfelt.livejournal.com]

Synopsis: Won is a crown prince of Goryeo. He has a pretty appearance, but he also has a lust for conquest. He is best friends with Wang Rin who comes from a royal family and is his bodyguard. Beautiful Eun San appears in front of the two young men. She is the daughter of the richest man. The three become good friends, but things change after Wang Won and Wang Rin both fall in love with Eun San.
Cast: Im Siwan, Yoona, Hong Jong Hyun, Park Hwan Hee, Oh Min Suk
Director: Kim Sang Hyub
Writer: Song Ji Na
Network: MBC
Episodes: 40
Release Date: July 17 - September 19, 2017
Runtime: Mondays & Tuesdays 22:00 (35 minutes each / 2 episodes per day)

Watch Here: Viki Dramafire

Source: AsianWiki

Comments

[simplyseasalt.livejournal.com]

This drama was kind of odd. I felt there were parts of this drama that had strong writing and others in which it seemed like the writer gave up halfway on the plot.

Anyway, it's always exciting to see the second lead become the romantic interest of the female lead. Kind of wish though that the writer/viewers weren't so invested in a love triangle as much as the other aspects of this drama.

[hesychasm]

Apologies for not being able to contribute more to the discussion posts the last couple of weeks. The show really got discussion-worthy in its second half (not that it got good, just that there was a lot we could have said) but owell, here we are at the end.

And the end was rushed and sloppy and made no sense. The reason Rin had to let himself take the fall as a traitor was because they couldn't find the King's seal on Song In's body -- except that San was the one who stole the seal in the first place? Huh?

No, I know, the reasons are more complicated than that, but the show barely tried to explain them, maybe because the writers were aware they were paper-thin. Like a house going up in flames and rather than trying to put the fire out, the firefighters just shrug and run off into the night. (I would try to think of a better analogy, but nah, messy show gets messy metaphor.)

THAT SAID, I still got the feels big time. And I'm kind of resentful about it, because the show wasn't good enough for my damn feels, LOL. I hate stories that end with loved ones who never see each other again. It's just so fucking SAD. I suppose most of us predicted it would end with Won alone while RinSan went off into the sunset, but goddamn you, Siwan, I was weeping during that goodbye scene and then again just thinking about it the next morning. I made it nearly 40 episodes without crying but finally they got me. The show did really well: the wind blowing, the gorgeous costumes, the silent long looks, the tearful smiles, the aborted hand-wave. SIGH.

I said at Soompi that the show was rather like a poem compared to a novel: relying on visuals and bare bones voiceovers to provoke viewers' emotions, but not really fleshing anything out and leaving us to interpret and explicate basically everything. Aside from the politics plot, there was only relationship plot, and even that was largely left unspoken in the end. There are still WonSan shippers firmly believing he went after her!

What bothers me most though is that the trio never really had any power. All they could do was defend against or (belatedly) react to other people's plots and machinations. I would have loved a show that was about them gaining power and control over their own lives, instead of constantly being railroaded into making whatever compromised choices that events allowed. Instead we got a tragedy of circumstances and misunderstandings, and few moments of triumph or joy.

(Maybe this is a sageuk thing, though. TKL was my first sageuk and I'm now wary of trying any others. Not to mention anything else by Song Ji Na.)

Most of all, I wish that Won had been allowed to really become as dark as the marketing implied, and that we could have seen more internal conflict from him about what it meant to be a ruler of Goryeo when he was feared and loathed for his Yuan blood. But no, we're told in half a line that it wasn't really about that, but instead about him being too strong to be a puppet. Then for the show to just toss in a historical note than he abdicated after 7 months, after all that sad struggle for power and after his father charged him with protecting Goryeo, was so tacked on and lazy.

So now I guess we enter a long period of no news from Siwan, unless more people go visit him. I think he's also got a song collaboration still due, but with TKL finished, it's going to be a visual drought until he gets out of the army. Really wish this had been a better show, because I'm not sure I'll be able to bring myself to rewatch it even for my thirsty eyes.

[kristinl356.livejournal.com]

I'm still laughing at the summary that comes with every post. "Won is a crown prince of Goryeo. He has a pretty appearance, but he also has a lust for conquest." Like bitch, where? I'm gonna spend the next two years crying about how they never let him be the villain. What a crying shame.

I made a post for all the photos we got of him in uniform because I am very shallow. I swear I might make a cut of this show with just the good parts from Won and the Queen. It'll only be like 15 minutes long but it will be beautiful. Once I finish making those cuts of him in Triangle I guess.

[hesychasm]

Heading to that post next! :D

I know actors are basically beholden to the script (unless they become producers themselves, which I think is a lot more rare in SK than Hollywood). I find myself somewhat offended on Siwan's behalf because I saw the Vlive press con where he talked about how hard everyone worked, losing sleep, etc., and therefore hoped audiences would enjoy the drama. Only to end up with this hot mess and many fans disappointed.

He's a smart guy and I get the feeling he knows what makes a good story because from Misaeng onward he's chosen good projects. But he wouldn't have been able to see every last TKL script before signing on. (I think you and I discussed that before, too.) He could only hope/assume Won would be a challenging and interesting character to play -- which it does seem like on paper, from the brief marketing descriptions, and so on. I wonder how he actually felt about the quality of the scripts in the end, and how he'll feel watching the drama itself once he gets out of the military.

Seems like the smart thing to do is take on another drama post-service. He could immediately start filming and be on-air within months, for a long period of time. A movie would delay him being back in the public eye for at least a year, and his screen time would only be a percentage of 2 hours, tops. But if he picks another bad drama, that's risky too.

Still, it seems like most people appreciated his acting in TKL even if they disliked the drama itself.

Did you see these tweets translating parts of his Arena Homme interview? Someday I want to play a role about protecting someone, not a protected one. *crying* https://twitter.com/PUTitrighthere_/status/903258298874339328

[kristinl356.livejournal.com]

He does seem like he tries to choose interesting projects and I probably haven't been watching dramas long enough to make generalizations but I feel like it's hard for anyone in dramaland to maintain an actual decent body of work unless they are extremely picky and are one of those people who only does like one drama every two years or so. The live shoot system they tend to favor doesn't help (not that live shot dramas are never good or that pre-filmed ones can't be bad, case in point), neither does the whole one season being the norm thing too. While I appreciate that it keeps your plotlines tight and you don't have to watch your favorite show grow stale, it also means that even when you do get a team of actors and writers and directors who all work together well, you fucking scatter them to the wind after twenty episodes and even people who are extremely talented won't necessarily be able to hit that potential again with a different group of people if everyone isn't on the same page or at the same level.

I don't want Siwan to rush into anything post-enlistment and honestly I find it a little crazy how many idols/actors go immediately back to work after being discharged (and how many work up until the minute they enlist, Siwan). Take a vacation. Get your bearings. Grow your hair back out lol. If he's just trying to get his face out there, I wonder if it might be easier to just do a variety (though I'm not entirely sure his personality is big enough to fill one). But varieties are sort of another level of weirdness in and of themselves and I'm sure they can be just as hit or miss. (Did you ever see KHN on Youth Over Flowers? I swear that show was the most charming thing I had ever seen.) That said, my ideal outcome would be that Misaeng 2 is ready to go when he gets discharged and just waiting for him and KHN to return.

Did you see these tweets translating parts of his Arena Homme interview? Someday I want to play a role about protecting someone, not a protected one. *crying*

I'm pretty sure my immediate reaction of 'awww, baby' is the exact opposite of what he wants but also, awww, baby. I could definitely see him in that role though. I think The Merciless proved he can hold his own as a formidable, intimidating, dangerous character. (And you know, apple boxes are a thing. Tom Cruise and Robert Downey Jr are short and they still get to play heroes.) Song Joong Ki went into the army as a sweet little flower boy, came out, and immediately got to be a big action star. I don't see why Siwan couldn't too.

[hesychasm]

I feel like it's hard for anyone in dramaland to maintain an actual decent body of work unless they are extremely picky and are one of those people who only does like one drama every two years or so

Yeah, even Gong Yoo has Big in his portfolio. *shudder*

I don't want Siwan to rush into anything post-enlistment and honestly I find it a little crazy how many idols/actors go immediately back to work after being discharged (and how many work up until the minute they enlist, Siwan).

You've got a point about the crazy work ethic, but part of it might also be because they're worried about not having practiced their craft for 2 years. I've seen Siwan mention that in an interview. Misaeng 2 would of course be great! I wonder if Season 2 of the webtoon is translated into English, actually. I've been thinking about checking it out.

[kristinl356.livejournal.com]

Is the first season of Misaeng even translated? I know I tried to find it once but came up empty handed.

[hesychasm]

Sorry, I forgot a whole sentence there. I meant that if S2 had been translated, and assuming S1 had, then I would take it as an additional reason + good timing to check it out. If none of it has been translated, then I guess we're out of luck. :(

[sweetestbliss1.livejournal.com]

That goodbye scene was seriously so sad and beautifully shot. Siwan hit it right on the nail with his expressions during that scene --trying to smile while tearing up. Not going to lie, I teared a bit. I was legit like "NOOO THEY'RE LEAVING HIM AND HE'S GOING TO BE ALONE!" What made it even sadder was the fact that he kept saying in previous episodes about how he doesn't have many people around him that he can trust, etc and that he's lonely. Waahhhhh.

[hesychasm]

YES! It was beautiful and perfectly designed to hit the audience hard. I may need to swear off sad Kdramas for a little while, LOL. I get that it's so much more tragic and poignant to make Won be alone after stressing how alone he already is. But it hurts like hell for a viewer and I can't help being a little mad about it. :D

I think this article at Soompi summarized my dilemma pretty well: The result was an ending that packed an emotional punch and gave Won a chance to show his character growth, but also undermined the friendship that was the centerpiece of the entire drama. Did we really spend 19 episodes watching this unbreakable bond between Won and Rin survive every obstacle that threatened to tear it apart, only for Rin and San to completely desert Won in the end? I’m not buying it.

https://www.soompi.com/2017/09/21/final-review-king-loves/

[kristinl356.livejournal.com]

Soompi is using my gifs again and the US Fish and Wildlife Service is using my endangered bumbleebee sighting data. I feel so important lol.

Bodashiri on tumblr (again, I know) posted about the ending of the novels here (https://bodashiri.tumblr.com/post/165585980056/did-you-read-the-novel-if-so-how-does-it-end-i). It has basically the exact opposite feel from the ending of the show. And more meaningful considering they'd all (Won especially) done much worse things to one another. I know it's probably bullshit to judge a series of books I've never read based on their summaries but I swear the novels sound so much more interesting than this goddamn show with the possible exception of the depiction of the Queen who wasn't really mentioned much in the summaries but was so spectacularly depicted here by Jang Young Nam (god knows I can't get through the last discussion of The King Loves without mentioning how much I love JYN). I'm just headcanoning everything and putting Siwan's beautiful face on top of it. This show gave me Jang Young Nam and Siwan pulling off some strong visuals and that is all I am taking from it.

[sweetestbliss1.livejournal.com]

Yeahh. Seriously. I wanted them to be BFFs 5ever. BUT I guess Won had no choice, really. Rin wanted to leave (how could you!) and be with San away from all the palace drama. Still sad though. After Won abdicated, they should have shown some field scene of him meeting up with them or something. That would have been precious.

[modestgoddess79.livejournal.com]

as far as Won ending up alone, I felt it was heavily implied that the reason he gave back the throne after 7 months was because he heard where Rin and San were and went to be with them.

[hesychasm]

The opposite, actually. Won heard San was in Goryeo, and went to Yuan instead of looking for her. I've seen other commenters say that the location she was spotted was in the south of Goryeo, so he literally went the other direction. :(

[modestgoddess79.livejournal.com]

So the ending is even more tragic than I thought it was and Won loses his two best friends!

[by-venoms-sting.livejournal.com]

My number one highlight of these episodes was the San/Dan hug <3

I really hated the retrospective on all the relationships in the show. Them going out of their way to make it like everything that happened was the totally normal ups and downs of a relationship was such bullshit.

Not making any effort to be open and communicate with your friends is not okay. Wanting to keep someone by yourside even though it does/will make them miserable is not okay. Being a complete asshole towards your child and your wife for years isn't okay suddenly because shit is falling apart politically and you need the help and because you gave your wife a fucking flower one time.

Like I'm all about exploring messy/fucked up dynamics but them having all this shit happen and hand waving it away is too fucking much.

Honestly like...The show rest loved hitting that reset/erase button way too fucking much.

I mean I enjoyed the writers driving home that the show way about the relationship between the three leads in the end and that was the "love" of The King Loves but at this point it doesn't work for me at all because there was no repairing of those relationships on screen.

[kristinl356.livejournal.com]

What the fuck is up with Song In and the King both belatedly realizing they *~loved~* their respective women even despite all evidence to the contrary? Such terrible writing.

[sweetestbliss1.livejournal.com]

That shit was so stupid. When Song In first started imagining her, I was like "WTF really?"

PLUS the flashback scene where it shows him watching Mu bi about to get killed, I was super confused at first because I wasn't sure if he was giving her that look to tell her to STFU and not say anything or what.

[kristinl356.livejournal.com]

And Mubi's response was to go, 'oh yes, I know how to impress my man. Get myself killed!' Like, honey, love yourself.

[sweetestbliss1.livejournal.com]

LOL, right? But, alas, love is blind.

[by-venoms-sting.livejournal.com]

A few other things:

Rin saying he always wanted San would have been good if it hadn't had that weird romantic tinge to it and not just admitting to being selfish/greedy (Dan remains the best member of that damn family I swear).

I was so amused when I saw the soldier/guard/whatever back Rin up to that cliff since his character in Scarlet Heart also had a cliff dive and later on we see that they also share a fake out death.

Which reminds me. I hated the fake out death cause I knew they weren't real to start with.

Speaking of deaths Song In's everything the past two weeks has been horrible.

I had no idea that comical fan guy was Song In's brother until these last episodes lol.

Hot Assassin was down with the cause in a way that Song In wasn't. His relationship with Bi Yeon was such a terrible plot device. Like it was so awful. Bi Yeon didn't even get a real final scene did she? Like she had a last scene obviously but it was her telling them about the antidote and we never saw her again after that.

What else happened?

Idk.

Oh Won finally became king only to be one for a hot minute/to clean shit up and then gives the throne back to his dad.

[kristinl356.livejournal.com]

How did Royal Assistant Secretary guy not go down with the rest of the rebels? Makes no sense.

That people on tumblr were genuinely shipping Bi Yeon and Hot Assassin makes me want to cry.

[sweetestbliss1.livejournal.com]

Right? After Won became king, I legit thought he would arrest Royal Assistant Secretary. Also didn't know he was Song In's bro. Hell, Won probably didn't even know. LMAO. That's how bad the writing was.

[hesychasm]

I swear I'd also seen Song In being referred to as son of the Assistant Royal Secretary and cousin of the Assistant Royal Secretary. And now I guess brother! Was it maybe just mistranslated subtitles?

[kristinl356.livejournal.com]

I always thought he was the cousin.

[kristinl356.livejournal.com]

Well, we got here in the end. I'm still so mad. I'm not even mad that the show was bad; I'm mad that for a brief second it was good and let me get my hopes way up. Why did it have to lower my defenses and then let me down like that? Why????

So Rin's letter genuinely got me a little watery eyed (I love guilt apparently) and wouldn't it have been nice if we'd gotten it BEFORE his fight with Won so I could have actually given a shit when it went down.

Not that I was expecting anything else (this shows looooves to reset like nothing happened) but boy, they all got over the whole Won almost killing Rin thing real fast. Also, lol @ all the screaming fangirls who threw fits when their precious Rin died last week. Have these people never seen a tv show before?

DID WE HAVE TO FUCKING KIDNAP SAN AGAIN? REALLY?!?!!?

Laughing at how quickly they wrapped up Song In's part and then went straight into the next crisis after having spent all this time building him up. Felt extremely anticlimactic. Not that Song In's plot had any potential left in it after he went crazy or whatever but why build him up as the final boss only to do away with him like he was never even a thing?

The King pulling a Song In was just as annoying as Song In pulling a Song In and truly fuck that noise as well as his and Won's tentative make up. The King did not deserve that save and he still wasn't even nice to Won at the end. What the fuck was that conversation he had with Dan? God, that was awkward. What a petty, weird ass father in law.

I wish I could have felt more at the end and I did get sad for half a second during the final parting scene but for the most part I was so done with this show I just couldn't muster up the energy to care. And then to get nothing of Won being a lonely king. What a waste. Considering the show was called The King Loves, I really expected to see him be king for more than two seconds. Not that I thought we'd get a lot of it but at least something.

If only the show could have actually let Won be a villain, it really truly could have been something remarkable. If only they had let Won actually be ambitious and cruel and get genuinely betrayed by his friends instead of caught in some stupid third party (fourth party?) plot. If only they had actually done the love triangle justice instead of just using it as a tool to bait shippers. If only they could have let Won be just as jealous of Rin valuing someone more than their friendship as he was of San liking Rin. If only the Queen could have killed the King before she died. Gah! This show broke my heart but not in the good way. I guess I'm gonna have to go back to reading the novel summary and imagining what could have been.

I have truly enjoyed these discussions though and bless all of you for keeping me from being driven insane by all the rabid shippers. And for giving me a place and people to yell about Siwan with. If anybody wants to keep yelling about Siwan, you know where to find me lol.

[hesychasm]

Yes to all of this and your comment in another TKL post listing all the ways the show could have been better. Was it really that difficult to give everyone realistic motivations and emotions? Just start there and the rest follows. Even the resets wouldn't be so aggravating if the characters made SENSE.

DID WE HAVE TO FUCKING KIDNAP SAN AGAIN? REALLY?!?!!?

I thought the same thing. They even threw in Dan to really raise the stakes. And of course highlight how San is the Best Girl because all Won cared about was her. Even Rin didn't stop to check on his own sister.

Not that Song In's plot had any potential left in it after he went crazy or whatever but why build him up as the final boss only to do away with him like he was never even a thing?

Oh Min Suk was so good in Misaeng, so coldly charismatic, and I was excited for his reunion with Siwan. He did pretty well with Song In for most of this show, so I hate that he was reduced to crazy eyes acting and silly one-dimensional villainy after BY died.

The King pulling a Song In was just as annoying as Song In pulling a Song In and truly fuck that noise as well as his and Won's tentative make up. The King did not deserve that save and he still wasn't even nice to Won at the end.

Yeah, we already had the discussion about Won Sung's feelings for the King and my dislike of the King having lingering love for her is infinitely greater. That said, I was okay with the Won conversation and the Dan stuff. The show didn't try to fully rehabilitate the King, and it's not like he and his son fell into each other's arms weeping about mutual regrets or whatever. I mean, it could have been written better, but at least the show made a gesture toward realism here.

And then to get nothing of Won being a lonely king. What a waste. Considering the show was called The King Loves, I really expected to see him be king for more than two seconds.

I'm pissed about the disservice done to Won overall and also the short shrift at the end. I think in one of my earliest comments here, I said I'd love to see him travel to Yuan. Like, how poignant would that have been for the show to depict, him abandoning Goryeo, then arriving in his mother's country without her, surrounded by people that Goryeo always identified him with, but from whom he actually feels alienated? I suppose they didn't have the budget or time, but it's a shame.

I have truly enjoyed these discussions though and bless all of you for keeping me from being driven insane by all the rabid shippers. And for giving me a place and people to yell about Siwan with. If anybody wants to keep yelling about Siwan, you know where to find me lol.

HAHA same. It's been...an experience...following a Kdrama live for once, and the love triangle shipper wars were more than annoying. I was glad to have this place of refuge anyway!

[kristinl356.livejournal.com]

Oh Min Suk was so good in Misaeng, so coldly charismatic, and I was excited for his reunion with Siwan. He did pretty well with Song In for most of this show, so I hate that he was reduced to crazy eyes acting and silly one-dimensional villainy after BY died.

Yeah, both he and his character really kind of bit it in the end. He was perfect in Misaeng. His personality was so befitting as the representative of the steel team, just so staid and subdued and like quietly forceful (bonus abs of steel joke). I loved his and Becky's weird, tense relationship (though I agree with Becky, if he'd have been my boss, it would have driven me insane) and his relationship with the other assistant managers (the assistant manager hangout scenes was everything I had no idea I needed). He was with them but he was separate. He's in the hotel room but definitely not in the drunk puppy pile on the bed. I loved him so much on Misaeng that I even watched some of his stint on We Got Married which is like the most awkward premise for a show I've ever seen.

Gah, now I want to watch Misaeng again. But then again that is basically how I feel anytime I'm not watching Misaeng.

I'm pissed about the disservice done to Won overall and also the short shrift at the end. I think in one of my earliest comments here, I said I'd love to see him travel to Yuan. Like, how poignant would that have been for the show to depict, him abandoning Goryeo, then arriving in his mother's country without her, surrounded by people that Goryeo always identified him with, but from whom he actually feels alienated? I suppose they didn't have the budget or time, but it's a shame.

Being American and half Chinese, I strongly relate to this.

I never expected them to go Yuan because of practical reasons but I did wish that Yuan would have played a bigger role instead of just this nebulous threat that they use or ignore as they see fit. The only characters from Yuan we see (not counting the Queen and her entourage obviously) are the stupid envoy they trick in the terrible episode and the guys who show up at the end to instigate the equally stupid 'Rin has to pretend to be the leader of the rebels' plot that didn't even fucking make sense.

According to wiki: King Chungseon's mother died in 1297, and this was followed by a violent purge brought on by allegations that she had been murdered. Perhaps upset by these evens, King Chungnyeol petitioned Yuan to abdicate the throne and was accordingly replaced by King Chungseon in 1298. Faced with intense plotting between the faction of his Mongolian queen and his Korean queen, King Chungseon returned the throne to his father shortly thereafter. [...] After his father's death in 1308, King Chungseon was obliged to return to the throne of Goryeo and made efforts to reform court politics, but spent as much time as possible in China.

His short lived reign sounds interesting. According to bodashiri on tumblr, his Mongolian queen had an affair with someone which had something to do with all the plotting but they were vague on details.

[hesychasm]

Dammit, two feuding queens would have been SO. FUCKING. AWESOME to watch! Whyyy didn't the TKL writers choose that for their plot?

No, but seriously: can this be a Kdrama one day? Or is it already a novel? Because that is what I'd want to read.

I mean, I do think the novel version of TKL sounds far better than the show, but I take more of an academic interest in the differences between show and novel rather than actually wanting to read it for itself. I've been fascinated all along at how much TKL viewers relied on stuff outside the show to prove their arguments: the novel, actors' interviews, actors' ~chemistry~ off-screen, posters and promo montages, MBC's SNS accounts. Happens in Western media fandoms too of course, but it just seemed dialed up to a crazy degree in this fandom. Shippers needing lifeboats, I guess.

Gah, now I want to watch Misaeng again. But then again that is basically how I feel anytime I'm not watching Misaeng.

I was hurting so much at that trio goodbye scene that I went and re-watched the last parts of the last episode, starting from the newbies' reunion dinner. You know why? Because the last line of the fucking show is "I'm not alone." Literally the anti-TKL, the antidote that I needed. Ugh, I really don't think I can watch another sad ending show for a while yet.

[kristinl356.livejournal.com]

No, but seriously: can this be a Kdrama one day? Or is it already a novel? Because that is what I'd want to read.

No, I don't trust dramaland to not turn a story about two feuding queens into just catty bitching.

I mean, I do think the novel version of TKL sounds far better than the show, but I take more of an academic interest in the differences between show and novel rather than actually wanting to read it for itself.

I mostly just took the novels as the potential of what the show could be, especially at the beginning when I was wondering if his character would ever go dark, and obviously that turned out to be a bad idea. =/

Ugh, I really don't think I can watch another sad ending show for a while yet.

Yeah, maybe just stay away from melodramas for a while. And sageuks. I think they have a tendency to be tragic.

[hesychasm]

Yeah, maybe just stay away from melodramas for a while. And sageuks. I think they have a tendency to be tragic.

LMAO, so it turns out I decided to compromise by watching the Siwan-only beginning of Moon Embracing the Sun (even my mother agreed that the first eps with the young cast are superior to the rest of the show). It's hilarious how the glowing perfection of his character enchants everyone he meets.

After this I may tackle a Misaeng re-watch. I know that /r/kdrama has been doing group re-watches of various shows on a weekly basis, and I think they might be voting on the next one soon. I believe Misaeng got a nomination but I haven't seen anyone hyping it up for the vote.

[kristinl356.livejournal.com]

Oh is that how his part on that show worked? I knew he played a younger version of one of the characters so I assumed it would be in intermittent flashbacks not more of a prequel type thing. That would be a lot easier to watch. Also, he was just so fucking adorable when he was younger. I mean, he still is, but then even moreso.

I almost feel bad doing a Misaeng rewatch just because it would be my second of the year and I only watched it for the first time like last fall I think. It really did make such a deep impression on me. It's just so sincere and I guess I'm a sucker for that.

[hesychasm]

Yep, from what I recall they age the kids up in episode 6 and any flashbacks that follow would be stuff that was already seen anyway, although even those would focus on the main duo I think, rather than Siwan who was only a supporting character.

Bonus points if you catch the shot when he was holding a thick winter coat from 2012 rather than Joseon era. :D He made the news for that, I believe.

[kristinl356.livejournal.com]

LMAO @ the coat thing

[wintery-banana.livejournal.com]

Huh sorry I know it might be weird seeing a reply to your comment after such a long tiime, just found this thread and wanted to say that... Won's (historical) queen had an affair with Wang Jeon actually. After the coup (they tried to make him king by remarrying the mongolian queen to him, thus legitimating his reign) failed Won tried to spare Jeon but was opposed by his mongolian supporters so that Jeon was executed in Beijing (where he was actually living as a non service hostage).

[modestgoddess79.livejournal.com]

Overall I enjoyed the drama. I just wish K-drama writers would learn how to wrap up a plot line in a logical way. You would think that would happen with a drama that was completed before airing but it seems like they are following the same write as you go strategy they do with live shoots.

What I liked: the friendships, the political stuff (before it went stupid), dark Won, the beautiful people wearing beautiful costumes, the QUEEN

What I didn't like: the villains acting completely nonsensically towards the end: Song In randomly deciding he loved Mu-bin enough to go crazy, the King randomly deciding he loved the Queen after she died, the over the top acting from Song In's co conspirator, the hot assassin / servant who talks too much love line, random changes in tone of the directing

I really hate the tendency of K-dramas to romanticize abusive behavior by saying that the Man who has treated you like crap secretly loves you?! Cause apparently Men force the women they love to sleep with another man, they manipulate the women they love into doing things that endanger their friends, they repeatedly cheat with other women cause they totes love you?

Also slipping in a quick line at the end about how the pure blood and rebelling against Yuan thing was just a farce cause they wanted a King they could control and to sell the country to Yuan?! But they were already controlling the current King so what is the problem. And you are already a tributary state of Yuan so what is the problem? I've read fan fiction with more consistent plots.

[kristinl356.livejournal.com]

I really hate the tendency of K-dramas to romanticize abusive behavior by saying that the Man who has treated you like crap secretly loves you?! Cause apparently Men force the women they love to sleep with another man, they manipulate the women they love into doing things that endanger their friends, they repeatedly cheat with other women cause they totes love you?

This is so real. One of the things I liked so much about the idea of Won being an antihero or whatever was that it requires his actions to actually be shown to be not okay.

Also slipping in a quick line at the end about how the pure blood and rebelling against Yuan thing was just a farce cause they wanted a King they could control and to sell the country to Yuan?! But they were already controlling the current King so what is the problem. And you are already a tributary state of Yuan so what is the problem? I've read fan fiction with more consistent plots.

MAKES NO SENSE. And pretty much undermined the entire show.