[identity profile] ashiva.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] omonatheydid


Korean stores scrap large clothing as societal pressures leave average women with few choices

At an H&M branch in Myeong-dong, northern Seoul, Lee Jin-ja, 49, tapped her fingers nervously on the wall. Looking through a rack of pastel-colored spring tops, she asked her daughter, Kim Hyun-seon, 23, for some advice.

“Should I get the large size or the medium?” she asked, with her daughter replying that the large was “way too big” and made her look “fatter and older.”

Lee ended up at the cashier with the medium-sized blouse in-hand, Hyun-seon smiling approvingly.

“Even though my weight has mostly been the same, I’ve started to wear smaller sizes recently. My daughter and even my friends say that wearing larger, ajumma [a local term addressing middle-aged housewives] clothes makes you look older,” said Lee, who like many women her age is not the size of a fashion model and has a 29-inch waist.

“Actually, this is quite stressful for an ajumma like myself. Now it feels as though I have to start losing a lot of weight and do yoga or something.”

It seems Lee isn’t alone in feeling the pressure, as Koreans get more style-savvy with global brands popping up one after another on the Peninsula. In fact, at Shinsegae Department Store’s main branch in Myeong-dong, three of the most popular “boutique brands,” a Korean fashion term referring to brands that target middle-aged to senior citizens, Printemps, Shin Jang Kyoung and JR, have stopped selling their 77 size - or the equivalent of a large size in the United States.

Since this spring, these brands now only carry size 55 (close to U.S. women’s size two to four) and size 66 (close to U.S. women’s size six to eight), just like brands targeting younger women. Skirts have also been shortened to 10 centimeters (3.93 inches) compared to similar styles featured a couple of years ago and the sleeve openings have been reduced to 3 centimeters so that the silhouette is leaner and tighter.

These brands now sell items that do not differ much from those targeting women in their 20s or 30s, including skinny jeans and sheer blouses.

At Lotte Department Store, the women’s “young fashion” portion, which carries brands targeting people in their 20s to early 30s, expanded an average of 10 percent at each branch last year, according to Kang Sun-hee, general manager of the customer strategy team at Lotte.

She added that every fifth customer shopping in the young fashion area of Lotte branches are women in their 40s and up.

“In recent years, there has been a clear ‘down-aging’ trend in women’s fashion, where even senior citizens don’t want to look their age. Everyone wants to look younger and skinnier,” Kang said.

Lee Jung-ah, retail manager at Shinsegae Department Store, echoed Kang’s view. She said middle-aged and older women in Korea have in recent years started buying younger styles and smaller sizes.

“This trend seems to have started when middle-aged Korean celebrities including Jang Mi-hee, Kim Hee-ae and Oh Yeon-su were featured wearing young, chic foreign brands and featured in the media commenting on their intense diet regimens,” said Lee.

“Even the boutique brands that still carry size 77 have substantially decreased the number of size 77 items in their shops as well as featuring clothing that is more minimal and contemporary compared to a couple of years ago.”

When these Korean women look to buy bigger sizes from foreign retailers, the story is pretty much the same. At global fashion mega brands operating in Korea, including H&M, Zara, Forever 21, Gap and Banana Republic, it is hard to come by plus size items for women, let alone U.S. sizes large and up.

At Banana Republic branches in Korea for example, the largest size available for women’s clothing is often a size six (equivalent to size 66). In Banana Republic stores in North America, a women’s size six is a small-sized medium, with sizes six and eight being labeled medium.

H&M in Europe and North America carry a plus size line called H&M Plus but no such line exists in Korean H&M shops. And the same goes for smaller retailers in Dongdaemun, with most vendors carrying size 66 as the largest option.

“We used to carry size 77 but stopped last year. It’s funny because our looser-fitting size 66 items are around the same size as our old size 77 items - but because they are labeled 66, they sell better than size 77 items,” said Jung, a store owner at Migliore in Dongdaemun.

Smaller sizes, bigger bodies

So if clothing sizes for middle-aged women in Korea are getting smaller, does that mean these women are getting skinner?

Not according to government statistics on the average size and height of Korean women. Size Korea, under the Ministry of Knowledge Economy, states that the average height and weight for Korean women aged 40 to 49 in 2010 (their latest data) was 156.7 centimeters (5.14 feet) and 57.2 kilograms (126.1 pounds).

Compared to 1979, when the statistics first came out, Korean women in their 40s now have come to be around four centimeters taller and weigh around four kilograms more on average. For women in their 50s, the average weight increased from 53.8 kilograms in 1986 to 59 kilograms by 2010 and for women in their late 30s, the average weight increased by four kilograms and average height by five centimeters.

The first retail clothing size standard in Korea was introduced by the Korean Agency for Technology and Standards (now under the Ministry of Knowledge Economy), in 1981.

Under this system, size 55 referred to the average adult woman who is 155 centimeters tall with a bust measurement of 85 centimeters. Sizes 44, 55, 66 and 77 were all plus or minus five centimeters in height and eight centimeters in bust measurement, with 44 being the smallest size.

“The agency introduced a new system for women in 1990, in which retailers state the height, bust and hip measurement on garments. But it’s true that this wasn’t strictly enforced and many brands still go by the old sizing terms 55, 66 and so on,” said Kim Yong-seok, a researcher at Size Korea.

However, even though the average woman in Korea in 2010 stands taller with bigger body measurements, many local women’s clothing brands still go by the old sizing standards of 44 and up. Some retailers even say that compared to five or 10 years ago, the same sized clothing for women has gradually become smaller, with more women looking for smaller sizes.

“A size 55 or 66 clothing item now, for example, compared to five or 10 years ago, is a bit smaller and tighter compared to the same size five or six years ago,” said Kim Hye-yeon, public relations manager for local boutique brand Madam Polla.

“Generally speaking, the same sizes have gotten a bit slimmer-fitting over the years,” said a manager at TIME, the flagship brand of Handsome, one of the biggest fashion companies in Korea. “Because of the diet craze in Korea, even

women who have size 77 measurements try to lose weight so that they can fit into a size 66.”

What’s a lady to do?

Unlike Lee Jin-ja at H&M, Kim Sun-mi, 45, said she gave up on shopping in stores these days for her size 77 frame. Instead, with the help of her daughter, Kim buys clothing from foreign brands and has them delivered to Korea via international shipping services operating here.

“I buy a lot of great, quality clothing from brands like J-Crew and Anthropologie online now. They have a much wider selection of sizes and designs compared to Korean brands and I don’t have to feel like a chubby failure when asking the saleswoman for a size 77,” said Kim.

“Even women who should wear larger sizes do not tend to buy their size these days because of the enormous pressure to be fit,” said Kim Hye-yeon of Madam Polla. “In the past, when Korea was a poorer country, clothing was more about function and affordability. But now, as Koreans become fashion-conscious, there seems to be a more high-pressure environment for women to fit in, loose weight and look young.”

Other disillusioned shoppers like Ahn Ae-ran, 42, said they refuse to buy size 77 clothing, even though they can no longer fit into smaller sizes. Instead, she said she occasionally splurges on size 66 items and tries to loose weight and fit into the clothing.

“I know .?.?. it’s like I live in denial,” Ahn said. “I know a size is just a size and people look better if they wear the appropriate size for them. But that logic doesn’t come through when you go out shopping and you rarely see a large size.”

Source: Cho Jae-eun @ Korea JoongAng Daily
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Date: 2012-05-19 11:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unreal.livejournal.com
:/ It's sad that they are forced to loose weight because they can't find clothes to wear.

Date: 2012-05-19 11:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] windygables.livejournal.com
Anthropologie is so overrated and expensive. Why would you..

Date: 2012-05-19 07:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ideservestars.livejournal.com
their clothes are expensive but great quality and are made for fuller figured women.
Edited Date: 2012-05-19 09:10 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-05-19 11:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] benihime99.livejournal.com
One size are an heresy imo
They fits short for me and too long for my bestie.

Rather they trying to fit people into smaller clothes, they should try to make clothes that actually fit people

Date: 2012-05-19 02:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] modernabsurdity.livejournal.com
Yes Style forever taunts me with cute clothes that will never fit my thighs or chest. >_

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Date: 2012-05-19 12:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jasmineakaiumi.livejournal.com
I'm a small in pants in the US and an XL doesn't fit me in Korea, made me feel a bit shit about myself.

Date: 2012-05-19 12:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yunho.livejournal.com
wow are you serious? jfc i'd be the fattest thing on the street then in sk

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Date: 2012-05-19 12:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yunho.livejournal.com
reading this article after my friend just finished explaining to me how his friends/family back home in sk view 'size' is like a punch to the stomach. cripes i need to get down to like 90 lbs before i ever set foot in the country.

Date: 2012-05-19 12:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] my-faux-pas.livejournal.com
.... Well. I have a size 29 pants size and I've already lost a bit of weight to achieve that size. WTF has this world come to.

Date: 2012-05-19 12:45 pm (UTC)
ext_155850: (Default)
From: [identity profile] kazu-kumaguro.livejournal.com
idk what my size actually is tbh, I'm only sure of my foot size.
the most important point of clothes (even in style) is to fit and support our body, idk why size is so important, people actually look fatter if they wear smaller size.

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From: [identity profile] my-faux-pas.livejournal.com - Date: 2012-05-19 01:48 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2012-05-19 12:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zeldas.livejournal.com
didn't know h&m had a "plus size" thing, pretty sure the ones here don't at least.

poor ahjummas :/ what sort of market minimises on a whole age/weight range. idk would a waist size 22 be offending? what's the limit here.
Edited Date: 2012-05-19 12:28 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-05-19 12:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kawaiisis86.livejournal.com
H&M's plus size is called BIB in the UK-stands for Big is Beautiful, its been around for decades. Not sure about other parts of the world though.

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Date: 2012-05-19 12:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] izabera.livejournal.com
I find it interesting that in Japan it's getting easier to find clothes in bigger sizes.

Maybe it's time Korean women rebelled against the size tyranny?

Date: 2012-05-19 01:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] angela-derp-otp.livejournal.com
I was recently in Japan and it was really refreshing how the local brands and stores are carrying such a wide variety of sizes. I even found skinny jeans that actually fit me, and i'm a size 7~8 with meaty thighs

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Date: 2012-05-19 12:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pseudo-shigure.livejournal.com
Clothes in Korea are small. Period.
My body is average for Asian, and yet their clothes are smaller than my size. And since in the non-branded stores usually only have one size, it could be quite difficult to find one that fits me *didn't stop me to buy lots of clothes though XDD*

But then again almost all Korean girls I've seen there are skinny, so I kind of understand that they only sell one *small* sized clothes

Date: 2012-05-19 12:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raviolikenshin.livejournal.com
"...It’s funny because our looser-fitting size 66 items are around the same size as our old size 77 items - but because they are labeled 66, they sell better than size 77 items,”

and that is the secret to selling clothes :) the more expensive the brand, the more they cater to vanity sizing. it's why so many american teen girls love expensive jeans. "well, i can fit into a zero in this brand...i'm a three in the cheaper ones..."

brb creating a clothes brand sized in xxxxs xxxs xxs xs

Date: 2012-05-19 01:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shortysc22.livejournal.com
vanity sizing is awful! It means I have to try on absolutely everything! In one store, I have skirts that are size 2 and BIG, pants that are 8 and don't fit, and everything in between.

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Date: 2012-05-19 12:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cettefemme90.livejournal.com
Ugh, that sucks. I guess if people refuse to go for a large, they should start (ugh) vanity sizing, so a 'medium' is actually a large in terms of measurements? You can't just walk around in too tight clothes...

Oddly, I'm a female medium at SPAO on the top half, which surprised me because I do have pretty sizeable boobs and a 29" waist (so glad that ahjumma shares that measurement with me and thinks she's fat :p), but then I don't think anything would fit me on my bottom half (I'm a pear shape with pretty massively wide hips, about 42/43"). Oh, and really tall as well...I'd be screwed if I needed jeans in Korea :p

Date: 2012-05-19 02:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miki-831.livejournal.com
well if you go to Korea, just bring your jeans! It's hard enough finding a good pair of jeans as is, so I don't want to deal with that mess on another continent, where the body types are different.

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Date: 2012-05-19 01:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] browniethecat.livejournal.com
Skirts have also been shortened to 10 centimeters (3.93 inches) compared to similar styles featured a couple of years ago and the sleeve openings have been reduced to 3 centimeters
I hope that's bad writing and they mean shortened/reduced by otherwise those skirts & sleeve openings would be really small lol

Date: 2012-05-20 12:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chunsakuma.livejournal.com
LOL I'm assuming it's a translation error, because yeah.

Date: 2012-05-19 01:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] feel-my-mind.livejournal.com
I remember for my international Marketing class, we did a project of Abercrombie entering S. Korea and my friend/one of my partner who is Korean had us change the sizing and get rid of the large sizes, so this doesn't surprise us at all.

“We used to carry size 77 but stopped last year. It’s funny because our looser-fitting size 66 items are around the same size as our old size 77 items - but because they are labeled 66, they sell better than size 77 items,” said Jung, a store owner at Migliore in Dongdaemun.

Ugh, vanity sizes, how I hate you. (Though this line does seem to contract the rest of the article, which has me a bit baffled).


One size fits all makes me laugh. Like Gap now has a one size fits all thong.... I don't know what size it actually fits.

I do wish to go shopping in Korea/Asia some day. American clothes generally don't fit, unless they are children stores/targeted at children/carry xxs, yet I'm too tall for petites and Europe does nothing to help this problem either. (And I'm cheap, so I'm not getting things tailored). People statements always scare me though. I'll probably end up like a L. lol.

Date: 2012-05-19 01:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] angela-derp-otp.livejournal.com
lol i'm a size S and I have some pants that are XL from the time I lived in Korea. The sizing there is ridiculously confusing tbh.
Edited Date: 2012-05-19 01:33 pm (UTC)

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Date: 2012-05-19 01:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sai12.livejournal.com
I was afraid to buy jeans in Korea until I visited the Forever21 store. But other clothes I bought like tops and stuff. And yeah, the small shops were like one size fits all. Thankfully I fit within that....

It is terrible though that they're getting rid of large sizes. I mean their large isn't even that big so it isn't like the women wearing it would be so unhealthily fat or anything. :/

Date: 2012-05-19 01:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] angela-derp-otp.livejournal.com
Shopping for clothes in Korea can be such pain if you are anything over size 6-7 imo, trying to find clothes that are more fitted and not the usual over-sized style can be really challenging.

I'm a size 7~8 but I have really meaty thighs and sometimes I have to buy a size bigger from my usual size depending on the style of the jeans, and trying to get a pair of good jeans when I was living there was HELL because anything in their 77~88 range is considered 'plus' for many, which is ridiculous because tbh not everyone in Korea is super thin like idols and such obviously, and even some of my friends there who are average are finding it hard to fit in 'one size' clothes now.

I do believe though that recently clothes are indeed getting smaller, compared to Japan for example where I could easily find a wide variety of cool clothes in local brands for my type of body, and even my boyfriend's sister didn't struggle to shop for clothes and she is a size 10. It was a joyful experience compared to when we were in Korea, for example I spend a whole day trying to find a dress for a formal dinner, and I could not find a single one that didn't made my boobs look like they were about to explode, and I don't even have big boobs i'm a small C/full B. And many times the people in the stores can be really rude and nasty about size and such. I remember one time at a store there was a girl checking out some clothes who was just a little chubby tbh no big deal probably a medium?, and the lady was like 'you can't try the clothes because you'll make them bigger!' like wtf was that so rude omg I wanted to punch her. The poor girl just left really sad, idk they are so self-conscious about size to the point of obsession and the pressure is just incredible.

Date: 2012-05-19 03:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] annhh.livejournal.com
ugh that's crazy! I mean 10 points to Japan but SKorea seriously needs to snap out of it

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Date: 2012-05-19 01:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] itskimbitches.livejournal.com
Tbh it's a functional way to indirectly tell people to lose weight but morally it's wrong. There's no law against this so let's see what happens.

It reminds. Me of when my friend said she hates when overweight ppl take two spots on the subway so she suggested that there be rails on the side to fit one person and if ppl couldn't fit they would need to lose weight.

Date: 2012-05-19 01:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] falling-empress.livejournal.com
Similarly, plus sizes require an extra charge with custom made clothing but smaller than average sizes aren't charged less. Now why is that?

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Date: 2012-05-19 01:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] falling-empress.livejournal.com
But now, as Koreans become fashion-conscious, there seems to be a more high-pressure environment for women to fit in, loose weight and look young.”

Sounds like America in general...the richer you are, the thinner you're required to be otherwise you're a failure.

This pisses me off...I used to always shop online at Korean stores with a shopping service because they actually carried plus size or large clothing that was actually fashionable or cute and not an ugly sack like shitty American brands. Now they're purposely phasing things out to FORCE women to be thinner? That's fucked up, and basically following the same trend that started a while ago in the west (carrying only XS, S, rarely M in most high fashion brands)...This is why I don't buy shit from Urban Outfitters or American Apparel and places that purposely body shame women or force them to buy clothes that don't fit. I do not understand how you can try to force people to lose weight to wear clothing rather than taking the time to make nice clothing for bigger people. Fat people need clothes too; I don't really want to wear mumus and sweats my whole life.

OT semi relevant: I went shopping with a fellow fat and a very thin friend at Forever 21. I absolutely could not wear a L in F21 and the girl I was with was definitely bigger than me, but because we were with a thin friend she refused to go to the plus size section with me because she *didn't want the other girl to know she needs plus size* (as if she doesn't have eyes...) so she bought a size L dress, refused to try it on, and ended up returning it 2 days later after thin friend wasn't there. I SMH so hard at that...I don't think there should be shame in admitting that you are xx size.
Edited Date: 2012-05-19 01:56 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-05-19 03:03 pm (UTC)

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From: [identity profile] kellygreen.livejournal.com - Date: 2012-05-20 02:32 am (UTC) - Expand
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Date: 2012-05-19 03:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] itskimbitches.livejournal.com
it's unfair that's why. equality is what we strive for and this goes against that.
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Date: 2012-05-19 02:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miki-831.livejournal.com
I wouldn't have thought that Korea would be shifting to youth worship like this when their hierarchy system is so important to the culture.

but skirts that are 10cm long?! Are you kidding me?

Date: 2012-05-19 02:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xoxeskel.livejournal.com
...maybe the people wearing them are really short and don't have much of an arse? I know I have a horrendous time buying mini-skirts because by the time the fabric has gone around my hips and arse, there's not enough left to avoid flashing.

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From: [identity profile] miki-831.livejournal.com - Date: 2012-05-19 02:33 pm (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 2012-05-19 02:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] geonitacka.livejournal.com
Signs Americans are obese: we go up to size 16 in some stores now and size 12 is standard to have everywhere.

BUT some people are born big and beautiful there's NOTHING wrong with that and people who are overweight should want to loose weight for health issues NOT societal pressures FORCING them to have a low self esteem.

I think if Torrid or a plus size store went to Korea they would be shocked. Big girls can look young and fashionable. You shouldn't have to not fit into your clothes. That's what makes you bigger etc. it shouldn't be a moo moo but you know no one wants to see your rolls either.
I know J-Ann(Korean brand) has plus size stuff but I don't know of really any plus size stuff in Korea.


I think that size 10/12 honestly isn't a "big" size. There's tall people out there, but also considering the average Korean height for women lol 8 seems like the size to go up in department stores. Just cause you have a size 8 in store doesn't mean it's promoting fat people it's just including them.
Edited Date: 2012-05-19 02:45 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-05-19 02:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] falling-empress.livejournal.com
Signs Americans are obese: we go up to size 16 in some stores now and size 12 is standard to have everywhere.

Um excuse you? Crystal Renn & Tyra Banks were plus size models at 14/16 and were by no means obese in any way when they were plus size modeling at that size. You can't just pick an arbitrary number and deem that the magical obesity number. A size 16 on a 4'10" girl is probably obese, yes, but on a 5'11" girl that is probably pretty healthy.

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Date: 2012-05-19 02:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dierre101.livejournal.com
I can’t say I’ve ever had an issue with fitting into one size Korean tops but I wouldn’t have any hope with their bottoms I don’t think.

But whether you think someone should lose weight for health reasons or not, you’re actually having more of a negative effect on their mental health by fat shaming them and forcing them into a size they're not.

Date: 2012-05-19 02:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lee-chikin.livejournal.com
If I were in my forties I'd think I have very well earned my right to wear comfy clothes, right? KOREA SAYS NO.

Date: 2012-05-19 03:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] annhh.livejournal.com
"But now, as Koreans become fashion-conscious" make that body-conscious. And sure, I too can fit into a size S or XS but that doesn't mean I should. Too tight fitting clothes are the worst tbh.

Where is the infamous ajumma power?

Date: 2012-05-19 03:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shineebambi.livejournal.com
Ugh I remember when i was in korea i had to bring all of my pants and skirts with me because there was no way in hell anything was going to fit me in korea just because of the way my body holds weight. Even finding tops was hard but that had a lot to w/ my shoulders being broader and wider then the avg korean. Tl;dr if you are over a size 6 in pants and arent petite in body frame gl finding anything that fits in korea

Date: 2012-05-19 03:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aquariia.livejournal.com
That's stupid. I know it's better to be slim but is Korean 77 (L) size that big?
I'm not even fat but if I starved myself and look like skeleton I won't fit in to 44 (S) since I'm 170cm and everyting will be to short
That sucks coz I like Korean fashion but I can buy only long shirts which on me is normal shirt.
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