[identity profile] buccal.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] omonatheydid

Date: 2018-08-19 10:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] petecarl.livejournal.com
Ohmygod, that last line. I love this woman.

Yeah, idk why us young folk should worry about the fertility rates? We've told the people in power and men what we want, and we're not being given it, so we have to decide what's most important to us and do right by us. I feel for the women who are too scared to get into relationship ships and have kids, and I also feel for all the women who "try to have it all" only to have society force them to do more and say they're still not doing enough. I mean, what is patriotism when your country won't give you human rights in return for your 'patriotism'?
Edited Date: 2018-08-19 10:11 pm (UTC)

Date: 2018-08-20 01:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dior-chic.livejournal.com
Your last sentence says everything, they want them to give back to the country, the same country that barely identifies them as humans

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From: [identity profile] jasmineakaiumi.livejournal.com - Date: 2018-08-20 03:26 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2018-08-19 10:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hellicoptajuuce.livejournal.com
Theres one way to fix this, destroy the male dominated society

Date: 2018-08-19 10:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 921227.livejournal.com
I saw a portion of this on tumblr and it's a really good read. Seeing the massive drop for SK is wild, but completely understandable. It's a shame that women are seen as the ones that have to fix birth rates, as if the male dominated society isn't one of the biggest concerns women have for not only marrying, but starting families. I imagine if SK doesn't get it together they'll run into the same problem Japan is having - an increasingly aging society with no one to care for

Date: 2018-08-19 10:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lightframes.livejournal.com
When I put it to her that if she and her contemporaries don't have children her country's culture will die, she tells me that it's time for the male-dominated culture to go.

It's true, though

Date: 2018-08-19 10:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cosmicdaze.livejournal.com
i read this article a few days ago and i really enjoyed it so i'm glad to see it posted here.
if i'm not mistaken, park geunhye's administration also got rid of a lot of the benefits—or assistance is probably the better word bc even those didn't seem to be enough that families got when they had kids. it seems impossible to start a family there so i don't blame anyone for choosing not to.

slightly off topic but i feel like this is one of those articles every kpop fan should read. as much as we all enjoy the pop culture i think it's important that everyone knows what kind of society our faves grew up in and are a part of so nobody can delude themselves into thinking korea is some happy kpop land

Date: 2018-08-20 02:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sra-interesante.livejournal.com
agreed

its so common to see kpop fans deluded with the idea about korea being this perfect kpop themed park were everybody look like your fave idol ... they swear the whole country revolves around kpop and kdramas

i hope we keep seeing this kind of content, people needs some perspective

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From: [identity profile] lulufairybubble.livejournal.com - Date: 2018-08-20 02:37 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2018-08-19 10:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jyushimatsu.livejournal.com
I’m just sad and disgusted..

Date: 2018-08-19 11:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] goshipgurl.livejournal.com
i knew pretty early in life that i didn't want kids, and thankfully my family accepts my decision. i don't like babys/kids and i suck at taking care of them, so why should i pop out some just to raise the fertility rate? there are enough people and way too many men on this planet, we do not need more of them.
also i don't want to give birth to a possible daughter in this male-dominated society.

Date: 2018-08-19 11:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scionofawhisper.livejournal.com
It's kind of amazing how kpop groups don't reflect the realities of Korea. And rather than kpop being the way it is in spite of how Korea actually is, I wonder if it's like a reaction to it, a way to escape their reality and for girls to feel a sense of power in a 'relationship'.
Edited Date: 2018-08-19 11:15 pm (UTC)

Date: 2018-08-20 05:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] petecarl.livejournal.com
Yeah, media and idols are definitely an escapist fantasy. That's why there are so many the cold rough guy ends with up having a heart of gold and caring for you stories.

Date: 2018-08-19 11:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] revedesnuages.livejournal.com
The boss that harassed Choi Moon-jeong almost to the point of miscarriage is disgusting. Fertility rates will continue to decline unless there's greater efforts at gender equality and more social assistance for working parents.

Date: 2018-08-19 11:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chenetic.livejournal.com
I believe in the same thing and the response is always "ohh.. you'll change your mind when you're older haha". ... ok sis

Date: 2018-08-20 12:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jaequeeragenda.livejournal.com
i love the last line, yessss

Date: 2018-08-20 01:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] reader17.livejournal.com
I don't blame them if they don't want to be in an abusive relationship, and also the boss that did that to his employee is a jerk. But I am also wondering how many of these woman may change their minds when they are in their later 20's and 30's. I know some of my friends never wanted kids and never had them, while a few of the others did change their minds when they got a little older and ended up having kids.

Looking at the graph yes it looks like it is going to go down by a lot but it looks like it is more then it was in the beginning of the graph. Also that is by 2065 things could change still where society starts accepting women in the working world, having kids and being able to do both with help from the men. I think a lot of men minds will need to change for this to happen.

Date: 2018-08-20 02:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lulufairybubble.livejournal.com

People get scared of dying alone.
I already have a plan for when I get to be a legit old person so me not having kids isnt going to factor into anything.

Edited Date: 2018-08-20 02:41 am (UTC)

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Date: 2018-08-20 01:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] senshicalico.livejournal.com
Hot damn at that last line. Destroy the patriarchy tbh!

I think about these things a lot. And while it's dead-on important to talk about reasons women who might OTHERWISE want kids decide not to (health problems, money, responsibilities, jerk ass men) I also wish we would talk about the fact that... women are not forced into having children in exchange for a livelihood anymore. Even in a perfectly egalitarian society where everyone has enough money to live, have kids, and pursue traveling and other passions, and even the guarantee that I would have no complications with childbirth, I STILL wouldn't want to have kids. Because I don't want them and never have. Sometimes I feel like these articles are like the government trying to "solve" the issue of women not giving birth. (Which is a terrifying process, btw. Thanks society for making sure so many girls never find out about that.) Sometimes, we do not need solving. There have always been women who never wanted kids, but today more than ever we have the power to say no.

idk, I just think about my grandmother a lot. That woman was clearly not meant to have kids and resented the fact her whole life (based on my own experiences with her and my mom's stories.) But she couldn't get out of it. She grew up in a time where she HAD to marry and HAD to have sex with her husband (but me talking about the decline in sexual activity among young women and how it compares to our recent foremothers who had little power of consent is a whole 'nother conversation) and HAD to have whatever babies took in her body... I'm just so fucking glad I live in a world where my greatest nightmare doesn't have to come true. (Yet, anyway. My biggest nightmare is being forced to be pregnant and give birth.) I've talked to more than a few women like me... sure, some women change their minds as they get older and circumstances change, but for a lot of us, we will never want kids no matter what. There is no solving us. We are not a puzzle to solve or a problem to fix by changing society so having and raising kids is easier.

Wow sorry about my soapbox. Do women need more protections and our cultures need more shifting so it's more liable to raise a family while still doing other things? Absolutely. But I wish we could also acknowledge our newfound power of saying "no," which so many of our foremothers could not say without severe cost. Even in America, the power to say no to getting married and having babies (or just one or the other) is a pretty recent thing. It's gotta be such a different struggle in East Asia.

(andI think I'm gonna print out that last bit of the article tbh. Paste it to the back of my laptop.)

ETA: and re-reading the parts about the aunties saying shit about having babies is patriotic (getting some Good Wife Wise Mother vibes here) is making me break out in HIVES. Like let's be real, the source of all this fertility rate panic in places like SK and Japan is ethnic and cultural purity, especially when arguments like "well we're running out of people to do shit jobs!" is quickly countered with "y'all be pushing out immigrants willing to do those jobs" and the crickets start CHIRPING.
Edited Date: 2018-08-20 01:46 am (UTC)

Date: 2018-08-20 03:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jasmineakaiumi.livejournal.com
interesting read re: past generations needing to get married and have kids in order to get by, whereas nowadays that's not the only option out there for women!

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Date: 2018-08-20 01:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dior-chic.livejournal.com
This post is incredible

Date: 2018-08-20 01:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sra-interesante.livejournal.com
omg ... i saw this article translated by local press (good translation) and comment section on facebook was full of koreaboos blaming korean woman for not appreaciating their own country

"i would love to have a baby with a korean man, they are ungreateful with their own culture"

🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦

i know korean wave is about spreading korean culture but let's not perpetuate wrong concepts just for the sake of kpop

Date: 2018-08-20 02:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] modestgoddess79.livejournal.com
The level of delusion in those comments

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Date: 2018-08-20 01:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] epona.livejournal.com
I relate way too much to everything Yunhwa said.

Date: 2018-08-20 02:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] donutism.livejournal.com
relatable tbh. why do i want to sacrifice my career, my body and life to bring a kid into a sexist society that expects women to do everything in a household, while discriminating women for having kids in the first place.

also, honestly people who fetishize korean, or asian culture in general are disgusting. i know this guy who is like asian culture is so cool, they have like new technologies and stuff, like bro u don't know half of the shit that goes down.

Date: 2018-08-20 03:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scionofawhisper.livejournal.com
I saw something recently similar to your last point. On twitter recently, on a tweet linking to an article about how a medical university in Japan had been lowing the test scores of female entrance exam takes to lower the number of female students, someone replied to it with (paraphrased) 'but I thought Japan was so technology advanced, this is really surprising'. Like dude, Japan continuously ranks super low with gender equality... It's terrible to be a woman in Japan if you want to have a career (and a lot of other reasons, but anyway). People really seem to hold up countries like Japan as some utopia without looking into the reality of the people who live there at all... :/

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Date: 2018-08-20 03:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jasmineakaiumi.livejournal.com
this was a great read.

i've never wanted kids, and recently i've come into the idea of not wanting to get married either.
i'd do it for tax benefits because adulting sucks, but beyond financial reasons I can't see a reason to get married tbh.

Date: 2018-08-20 08:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] senshicalico.livejournal.com
health insurance tbh. especially if you don't have an employer of your own to supply it. (that's basically the situation I'm in.)

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Date: 2018-08-20 03:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frequency.livejournal.com
not only is this a great read, but it's extremely relevant to me. not so much the working parts, but the whole deal of not wanting to have children in general. i don't dislike children or anything; i just don't have much of maternal instinct, have too many medical issues i'd rather not pass down, and the increased amount of estrogen during a pregnancy could kill me. ◔_◔ not to mention the other issues the article brought up.

At the hospital the doctors told her that stress was bringing about signs of miscarriage.

this is sad and just really fucking awful.
Edited Date: 2018-08-20 03:41 am (UTC)

Date: 2018-08-20 04:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maagdenpalm.livejournal.com
What a great read. I may be the odd one out by wanting to have kids, it seems. The main reason I want kids is simply because I am very nurturing by nature; I think I would be a great mother and even though I find it appalling how unaccommodating this world is to working mothers, I am prepared to have a career and children. With that being said, I have a huge mistrust of men, and as Yun-hwa eloquently put it, the male-dominated culture must die,

Date: 2018-08-20 12:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nekobot.livejournal.com
It's ridiculous that everything about having children is tied in to men and the rules (both socially and on a higher level) they reinforce around birth, motherhood and raising children. Even outside of personal relationships with men the world itself seems to be set on demonising women who don't want kids while also treating women who ARE mothers like trash by making sure they have to do the most difficult job in the world under the worst possible circumstances - and then they wonder why even women who want kids refrain from doing so!

Even if you want them now it must be terrifying to think what kind of shit men will pull 10 years from now when you'd hope you would be busy just trying to get your kids to school okay.

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Date: 2018-08-20 06:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] belintuchiha.livejournal.com

It sucks how this happens everywhere. I remember getting a job interview not long ago in my country and the male interviewer kept asking me if I had plans to get married and have children in the future, lol.

It was obvious why he asked that.

Date: 2018-08-20 08:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] senshicalico.livejournal.com
omg where was this? because where I'm from that's straight up illegal (not that it stops people from doing it -_-)

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Date: 2018-08-20 12:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nekobot.livejournal.com
Such a good article. As painful as it is seeing piece after piece about men being trash and getting away with it the uprise in women coming out trying to reclaim their lives and showing what we can do when we get together and form bonds with other women is so inspiring.

I know it's an extremely radical position to take but I wish political lesbianism was more popular. I think boycotting men entirely (or at least excluding them as much as we can manage) is a very powerful action we can take and the most straightforward way to getting power and achieving equal rights. It's not just future daughters that won't be safe in this world, sons will suffer from the patriarchy as well as there is no way to raise them "right" if society is hellbent on either hurting them or turning them into monstrous manbabies.

Date: 2018-08-20 05:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] myungung.livejournal.com
hooray 3 of the 4 asian tigers have the lowest birth rates. well this has always been a problem for many years for them, and tbh the signs were there but nobody is really tackling the issue. and short term benefits aren't going to help (as in the case for my country), while shaming them is also not going to help.

I do hope the older generation/policy makers see that this generation does not think the same way and that perhaps not use the same tools for making change, instead of forcing it

Date: 2018-08-20 09:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] donutism.livejournal.com
instead of tackling the problem, the govt and older generations just blame women for the low birth rates like it is our fault that the birthrate is dropping. ~if only women weren't so selfish and just have kids~

Date: 2018-08-20 11:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blah379.livejournal.com
I don't blame any of these women, with how society (and men) can be. I love living the life of a hermit.

Date: 2018-08-21 07:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yxerin.livejournal.com
it seems almost impossible to manage korea's insane working hours and childcare + household chores at the same time... the work culture and the weak standing of unions in the country seem to be the main problem

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