VICE covers EXP Edition in "The World's Most Controversial K-Pop Group"

[torontok.livejournal.com]

source: Vice

This was an interesting watch especially the opinions of the Korean women behind the project.
Also damn, I didn't realise people sent them death threats, way to take shit too seriously.

Comments

[vintage-boom.livejournal.com]

I was just making a post about this lol

The parts talking about ownership of kpop and westerners looking at a korean industry through with the lens of appropriate inclusive representation that's being pushed for in their home countries by asian minorities was really interesting. that's definitely something that was missing during the discussion around EXP Edition.

[vintage-boom.livejournal.com]

more thoughts:

+ the white kpop fans they interviewed were really missing a lot of perspective on the industry as a whole. there's no cash grab going on since they have no money tbh

+ the one member talking about the appropriation of jazz and black musical genres was super tone deaf especially since KPOP is very much in the same world with appropriating black culture.

they really should have picked cuter boys

[love-keiko.livejournal.com]

fo real tho! that's 80% of the job.

this industry has standards and they entered it considering NONE of them.

[sjtaazrz.livejournal.com]

I think this has some interesting points about k-pop but EXP Edition isn't really the group to spark these questions (to me).

Everyone knows they started as an experiment and they haven't had the idol training/gestation period that k-pop groups have had, so it doesn't fully work. I'm happy if the remaining members want to keep going, and I did see the same member on I Can See Your Voice, first as a contestant, then sitting on the panel with the celebs later on, so they seem to be getting some success. But, they just didn't debut with what audiences (Korean or International) were looking for: eye-catching music video, uber-attractive people, great choreography, catchy tunes, entertaining variety appearances etc.

Much of what makes people like K-pop is the result of all of that training and a great team behind the scenes to bring it all together, Exp edition didn't have either ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But the guys seem nice and hardworking enough, maybe they can find their niche and be kind of like a White 2AM and just sing some nice ballads.

If a group of White, talented, and attractive kids that trained for years popped up, I don't think they'd get the same treatment as EXP did.

[kxixu.livejournal.com]

It's so interesting to me that the reaction this group gets is generally overwhelmingly negative when TVXQ and BoA get so much respect for essentially doing the exact same thing when they each first went to Japan. IMO the only legitimate difference is that TVXQ and BoA are, of course, Asians entering into a competing Asian market whereas this group is Whites/Westerners entering into a non-competing market.

Even Alex was supported unanimously when she joined RaNia and during her tenure she spoke/sang less Korean than these guys speak in this docu alone.

Whatever your opinion of their music quality or their attractiveness, it's hard to deny that the real underlying reason behind a vast majority of the backlash these guys receive is just because they're white. I've literally read comments from people who have said that Koki (the half-Japanese member) is the only one who should stay in the group while the others should be replaced with other Asians.

The great thing about this group is that they really force you to think and consider: What Is K-pop and Why Aren't They Part of It?

> To be kpop, do you have to sing in Korean? They do.
> Do you have to speak Korean? They do, and they're learning more.
> Do you have to live in Korea? They do.
> Do you have to be Korean? Ok they aren't, but neither are a slew of other Kpop idols.
> Does your group have to be majority Korean? Well, what about miss A? What about the first generation of RaNia? How do you qualify those who are ethnically Korean but culturally belong to a different country (like Tasty)? Or for that matter, those who aren't ethnically OR culturally tied to Korea (like Amber and Victoria, or Henry, or the J-Line of TWICE, or....)
> Do they have to have trained at a Korean entertainment company? Why? Yoochun of JYJ/TVXQ trained for 6 months before he debuted. Way of Crayon Pop debuted 2 weeks after joining the group and didn't technically train a single day. The training system of kpop exists for no other reason than to take random people off the street and hone their ability in order to be profitable; if a group or idol can avoid the entire thing then why wouldn't they?

Anyways, this is something I've thought about from time to time ever since EXP Edition began promoting and I haven't had the opportunity until now to actually put my opinion about them down into words, but as someone who has been in kpop for 10+ years and has seen a LOT of groups/idols come and go....the amount of heat this group gets just for having the audacity to be white is unfair and I genuinely believe if they were any other race it wouldn't be nearly as bad.

[arysthaeniru.livejournal.com]

Okay, but the context is really really different. So different. Many of the foreign kpop artists were interested in kpop genuinely, instead of doing it for a doctoral programme and an experiment. There's something really different about the intentions when you're attempting something like this as an experiment.

There's also a significant difference in quality and effort put into the production and training, for many other idols--a lot of people felt like EXP hadn't really put the time in to actually get the vibe and were relying on their gimmick of being white to draw interest. We were already burned by Chad Future and Chloe Moretz, and nobody really wanted to give EXP a chance when they didn't seem to be as well prepared.

And finally  like. Historical context is important here. It feels like another intrusion of white people into spaces they had disdained before people of that culture made it cool. Even if EXP were putting in the effort that others do, that's undercut by the history of white people appropriating and taking culture they want to see. It's particularly sour in Korea because of the influence America has in Korea through their occupation/placement of dictator Syngman Rhee in living memory!

[benihime99.livejournal.com]

I really like your last point
Because until kpop started being notice and generated money oversea, people were only looking at it with desdain and mockery.
You can compare it to j-pop that doesn't have the same exposure as k-pop, it makes TONES of money but since it's not as popular in the US as k-pop, no experiment of the type exists and people still look down on it
It all feels very hypocritical and opportunistic to me

It's also different to have a woc like Alex come into k-pop when k-pop has borrowed so much to black culture
As opposed to a bunch of white dude invading a space that isn't theirs?

[vintage-boom.livejournal.com]

idt there was push back for TVXQ and BoA because most of the blowback for EXP is coming from ifans who got into the genre in recent years.

It's taken me a while to really articulate my feelings on them too tbh and I think the question missing from your list of "what is k-pop" is "does it come from a korean based company/a company that understands the korean industry?". regardless of who that company hires to make songs, what ethnicity the members are the root point for KPOP should be, imo, a company based in Korea that understands the history, industry, and politics of the genre.

removing the whiteness from the equation for a second because that's more of a fan reception issue than industry/korean cultural one as shown in the doc:

the woman who created exp did so from america after deciding she wanted to create an art project/thesis project out of seeing if she could take a group of fellow americans over to Korea and give it a go. She had no music industry experience or knowledge and idk if someone with no connections to the industry itself trying to run a kpop group was ever going to be really successful. one who did would have probably gone about introducing a full group of foreigners, especially white ones, in a different way.

[pourtant.livejournal.com]

ia completely, most of the negativity i've seen about them has been very focused on "white men in my kpop?? this is wrong~". i think a lot of ifans are looking at it from a us/european perspective where asian people are a minority and forget that that's not the case in korea

also this is cynical but i firmly believe that if the guys were cuter there'd be less backlash

[rainstormraider.livejournal.com]

White privilege doesn’t need to extend to KPop. I am fine with them being marginalized in an industry that does not cater to them.

[existingisfunny.livejournal.com]

i'm not gonna watch this bc i don't want to and think any other group is worth being interviewed more but it's vice so what can i expect

all i'm gonna say is i own up to not caring abt them bc they're white cuz that's partially why i subconsciously geared toward kpop anyway. being a black american and tired of only white things to consume and not enough material for anyone else, it felt good to escape them

there are plenty of other groups that flop so whining abt flopping is like ok you're not that special

[ostsiberia.livejournal.com]

tired of only white things to consume and not enough material for anyone else, it felt good to escape them

I agree. This is why I enjoy kpop too.

[mjspice.livejournal.com]

South Asian here but I agree with you.

[queenhinata.livejournal.com]

that's partially why i subconsciously geared toward kpop anyway. being a black american and tired of only white things to consume and not enough material for anyone else, it felt good to escape them

literally me. i stumbled upon k-dramas & k-pop, but i did stay for that reason. so obviously i didn't mind which idol was korean or asian but from another country. and i did root for black and biracial celebrities in korean industry (alex from rania, chocolat, the model han hyun min..)

i don't actively hate this group and am only aware of them when something relevant happens (like their debut and most recently, they covered a song of my bias group).

[miss-suunshinee.livejournal.com]

well ... i remember when they debuted and got lots of hate ...its kinda sad how normal (for kpop standards) celebrities getting hate for no reason

i guess in a way they have a lot in common with kpop idols

[jesymphony.livejournal.com]

Chad oppa did it better

I remember when these guys debuted and initial sentiment definitely seemed to be "lol but they're harmless", until it broke that they were someone's thesis project and that really got the international fans riled up. They probably wouldn't be so maligned if their whole 'experiment' thing wasn't known.

The documentary raised some interesting points for me because I don't give a shit who's in my KPop as long as they make catchy songs with good choreo. I admit I do like that it's a predominantly non-White space and it's pretty much one of the few areas in mass entertainment where Asians are given the spotlight without having to fight for it or justify it (and unapologetically codes Asian men as attractive). But honestly, so long as EXP and their management are approaching it with genuine intentions, hell, go nuts. Learn the language, rock the aesthetic, you do you boo.

Just more generally though and a bit more of a tangent, I could sure as hell do with fewer White people being offended on the behalf of an entire culture. The number of times where I have been informed by some 'woke' White person that something is offensive to my race/culture is too damn high to count.

[kazu-kumaguro.livejournal.com]

yeah I'm so done with white saviors and them forcing their lenses on non-whites

[mjspice.livejournal.com]

Their group was a bad idea from the start so whateves.

[queenhinata.livejournal.com]

no one deserves death threats or hate to that magnitude. kpop fans are legitimately scary, from 1st gen until now...

but meh, korean popular music = / = idol music anyway. kpop (i.e. idol music) is a term created for foreigners (https://twitter.com/toojazzy25/status/972925112751149058). so we're allowed to have our opinions about what is and is not kpop. though that doesn't mean we are correct lmao~

[love-keiko.livejournal.com]

i mean... i'm not gonna watch this rn but upper level thoughts i think it's arrogant af that they thought they could half-ass enter an industry with mediocre to shitty singing skills while dancing to stale ass songs.

competition is stiff and ppl are not nice. if you're not gonna come correct, don't come at all.

[rainstormraider.livejournal.com]

White people have culturally appropriated enough, seeing more white people in KPop idoldom is idolception at this point. No one wants to hear these uggos whining about acceptance when the only band to truly break into the American market is BTS and they did that mostly on the back of their rabid fandom.
You already have boy bands and man bands in the West, this was an exercise in futility.

[benihime99.livejournal.com]

I'm always confused by those westerns attemps at a j-pop/k-pop/c-pop style of group
I had the spice girl when I was young, I had backstreet boys and girls aloud, hell France had it's own boy and girl group, if I wanted that I wouldn't be into j-pop/k-pop and it's something people fail to see imo

[benihime99.livejournal.com]

I'm quite curious about their finance so to speak, because ha d a traditional k-pop griup be that unpopular and not selling for that long (without a big name to back them up) they'd be out
So how do they sustain their lifestyle?
What kind of visa do they have?

[abcd123.livejournal.com]

i just skimmed the comments on this post but it mostly seems negative so i'll just add that i do commend them for still going with it even after all these years (and honestly hearing about the death threats is the worst they really didnt deserve them)