OMONA THEY DID(N&#39;T)!

omg m*rk looks really good in the first pic

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why the asterisk*?

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he annoys me lmao

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lol fair. after that party mess in the US, even if GOT7 miraculously came out with good, catchy music again, I wouldn't be able to like them like I used to.

Edited Date: 2018-05-23 02:13 am (UTC)

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omg that shit really turned me off and didnt jackson have some drama on ig before that too

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Yeah, the party thing made me really judge Mark b/c people usually agree with their friends (hence why they're firends) even if they don't (or haven't been caught) doing the same thing themselves. It also showed me just what sort of company JYPE is b/c Bambam had to do a secret barley an apology in a comment on his instagram b/c his company was just trying to shut it down and pretend nothing had happened. And from the company's perspective, it makes sense b/c it's better to lose some ifans who don't contribute that much money to the group than to have the issue blow up in Korea (the way Mamamoo's stints have), so they'd rather just brush it under the rug than apologize/ It's awful, and I don't agree with it, and I wish they would at least do something to make up for it, like teaching their artists about the culture they're profiting from and then have the artists speak about what they learned in a show or even a vlive. Or you, suck it up and give a proper apology.

https://omonatheydidnt.livejournal.com/18506259.html

I think Jackson's drama was after that, but he's also had multiple insta dramas, but if you're thinking about when he wore his hair in locs for a Chinese commercial and then called the backlash haters (even though most fans were being very nice about informing him that it's wrong to culturally appropriate).

https://omonatheydidnt.livejournal.com/20527944.html

But there was an earlier time on insta where he regrammed an image edit made by a fan that darkened his skin, but when fans called him out, he deleted it and apologized.

https://omonatheydidnt.livejournal.com/15343756.html?page=2

I used to be an IGOT7, so it's weird to see them now still active. Most groups that I've dropped, it's cause they weren't very active, but they're still so active making terrible music. I still check them occasionally for nostalgia reasons, but my fondness for them is gone (so I don't understand why I still have hopes for Jackson to get it together. I also have a soft spot for Jinyoung even though he's boring af).

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OMG this first time i've those ig comments about his "haters" yikes he's so defensive.

"they're still so active making terrible music." LMFAOOOOO THIS TRUTH.... tbh i never liked them for their music anyway alfska so it was much easier for me to drop them.

omg was there ever any dirt on jb i rmr reading a comment that he was homophobic???

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~~Yeah, I don't think JB's ever done anything explicitly homophobic~~ (Never mind, I just found the post about it, and I can't believe I forgot), but he definitely has very strong ideas of what being a man is, and he wants to stick to gender roles. I know there was a Japanese magazine interview where he and the members were asked who they would date in 2PM if they were a girl, and he expressed a lot of discomfort with that in a very heteronormative way and had it changed to whose blood they would suck if they were a mosquito (lol. i'm pretty sure some of the guys made some sexual innuendos). He seems like a typical Korean man who's very rigid about gender roles.

https://onehallyu.com/topic/231792-got7-share-which-2pm-member-theyd-suck-on/

Just went to look up the post about his homophobic remarks, and it was worse than I remembered: https://omonatheydidnt.livejournal.com/19289845.html#ixzz4T8ISl7Ho

He basically makes homophobic jokes about how two men shouldn't be hanging out where they are b/c it's something couples do, but they're two men, so it's "wrong". It's him basically no homo-ing.

Here's two more posts where it seems he's less than friendly to the rainbow::

https://omonatheydidnt.livejournal.com/19316422.html

https://omonatheydidnt.livejournal.com/20867784.html?page=2 <-- though this one seems to have been a genuine 'lost in translation' moment, so read the update.

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OMFGGGG THE FIRST LINK...binch youngjae being cute as heck and jb ready to fight wtf. i'm now glad that he thinks he looks good with that mullet. delusional!

thanks for the links! this has been a trip

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Let's continue!~

- Your striked out sentence is the most accurate. Other than that we don't have actual contextual evidence on his "stance". Period. I can't believe it's 2018 and people are still using his stint with Yoo Youngjae as evidence of his so called "homophobic jokes". Two years is plenty of time to learn some Korean. Hell, I did it. I dragged his ass to the moon and because I was pissed (it's in the post you linked), but when I rewatched it /and/ watched the following episode, I honestly felt irked at myself for being falling for the groupthink. This episode has been addressed ad nauseum so it never fails to amuse me that people still bring it up as proof because a) That's not how Korean 'pronouns' work, b) Youngjae's an enduring little shit that was scrounging for those reactions, but of course he don't know the international fandom and their talent to twist things to how they want them, and c) if you are going to bring up this episode, even within the context, then ignoring the second one where JB acts like the designated wife for Youngjae (grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning? TF was up with the candles lol) makes your agenda preeeeetty damn clear (not talking about you OP, in general).

If you are going to talk about fragile masculinity, then yeah, I definitely agree. Dude needs to let go because it's got me rolling my eyes so far into the back of my head they'll probably get stuck. But even with said tendency, I don't agree with him being the "typical Korean man who's very rigid with gender roles." I know we love labeling Jinyoung as the mom of the group, but if there is anyone that fits the bill in the group... it's Jaebum. /Especially/ considering he's said, on multiple occassions, that men should contribute to the household work and is openly affectionate with his father. Cause you know, "traditional Korean mean" definitely go about kissing their fathers in public... and calling their groupmates beautiful... and doing housework.

If you are going to perpetuate the narrative, please provide actual evidence (maybe then we'd actually drop his ass instead of giving major side eye), cause that first link is him cringing like he always does (dude's done the same when he's watching himself kiss a girl, so maybe kissing girls disgusts him too omg! D:), and the second is an not only mistranslated but also taken out of context since he was expounding Jinyoung's answer.

TL;DR: GOT7 are pseudo-devils and Ahgase should really listen to the internet. We been knew.

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I'm curious, why do you think Jinyoung is boring? Cause you're not the first one I've heard say that lol and I'm always fascinated by how people perceive him.

Not gonna go into details on the rest of your comment other than ia w everything pretty much (well, except the terrible music part lol, but that's just preference, each to their own ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

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He just never lets loose and is really reserved. I know back in his JJ Project days he was a bit wilder, but I think a combo of learning to be concerned about his idol image and him getting older, he's become more reserved. He seems nice, and I remember liking what he said in one interview about his ideal type being a woman who liked her job (or something along those lines) and that he was inspired by his sisters. I don't have anything against him, and I'm sure he'd be great if I knew him irl, but he always looks like he's holding back his comments, which is a bit unfortunate, cause he seems like he has a mischievous side that I think would be fun to see. I think his members bring it out when he's with them, but when he's not with them, he's very contained. I think if he wants to do variety by himself, he would benefit a lot from relaxing just slightly.

I used to like got7's music, but after If You Do, their songs really took a nose dive (imo). But to each their own. I'm sure I have some faves that other people can't stand listening to.

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Iirc (I might be remembering wrong) he was maybe putting on a bit of a front during his JJP days, but also him being younger and less conscious of his idol image contributed yeah. I mean, I don't disagree with anything you said more or less. He definitely is reserved or just a tad awkward when being around people he doens't know or in a new situation. It really depends on what kind of people he's around (that's why I thought the Unexpected Housemates was so cute because there it was clear he was feeling more relaxed with P.O and the stylist noona and that trio just worked so unexpectedly well).

He really doesn't have a eye-catching personality, I didn't pay attention to him in the beginning either (and it doesn't help that you have such strong personalities like Jackson in the group that can overshadow him ). You actually learn more about him by the interactions he has with the other members and reading interviews (because he probably prefers sitting down and having the time to think about his answers than having to use his wits (in the way that Jackson has really perfected). There was one interview he described himself as temperamental which is ?? and you can def see (with the got7 members because he's comfortable with them and to some degree with fans as well) instances when his snarky/petty side comes out so there's definitely a side of him that he doesn't show us.

I actually think his personality being sort of unconventional for idol-standards is interesting. We can't all be a Jackson or Bambam-type but it doesn't have to hold us back.

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Yeah, I noticed he was much more open in magazine issues b/c they usually ask more introspective questions in a more chill environment, and I found it super interesting that he and Jackson said they were closest/most comfortable with each other (and that JB and Mark are closest with each other) b/c it doesn't come across on screen. But I also haven't checked for them in a while, so I don't know if that's changed at all, but I'm sure it doesn't come across that much in part b/c both Jackson and Jinyoung are very camera/image aware, and Jackson wants to be hyped for the fans b/c he knows they watch him/his shows to be happy and entertained. But Jackson has been on a lot of shows and can't help but be open about who he his and what his personality is like, so we've seen just how sensitive he is, and while I get why that's something more private, I wish I could see more of it between him and JY. I'd love to see them have a deep talk and how they just hang out and support each other.

I saw a bit of Jinyoung with PO and the stylist on that show b/c I'm a fan of Solbi, and her part was in some of the same episodes. Their relationship was very sweet, and I thought it was funny when they took her ice skating. I definitely think he's the type to wait for other people to open up or be wild and then he joins in. Not exactly a mood maker, but he does seem like the type who enhances the mood. The positive side to that is that it shows he cares about being appropriate and considerate of the situation and people's boundaries. I think he's really interesting, but it's the sort of thing you have to look for, so as a casual viewer, it's a slow burn.

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Oh that's a good point about JS and JY both being very image conscious, it just comes across a little differently. Their dynamic is just as fascinating to me as JJP tho in a very different way.

That's why the GOT2DAY series was so brilliant because you could just get the guys talking with each other without any other distractions. I wish they did it again now especially because I'm esp curious to see how the dynamic is now and if there's a difference to the old ones from a few years back.

Actually I just looked it up and they've done one every year since 2015.

2015:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=DfokmQHM3x0

2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3csVyXmeC0

2017:
http://www.vlive.tv/video/44298

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OMG we have same taste kinda..... if you do their only sing i like alkfsha i quit them after that !

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Okay, I don't usually give a damn about people talking about the so called "scandals" because many Omonian/Stan Twitter/OH have made it their mission to push a narrative on GOT7 and let it fester without context - and at this point is pretty obvious they aren't here to sip Da Woke Tea so much pushing down a group they have decided they don't like (why waste so much time doing this? Man, I'd like the answer myself).

But you, my friend, clearly have some understanding of what transpired and it's only right to add context or clarify considering a) Correct information mingled with incorrect/out of context statements makes for more misunderstandings and b) people are going to read said 'information' and make judgement based on that instead of assessing the situation by themselves (online communities aren't exactly adept at critical thinking).

So I'll just bullet point it (wait, how do you even bullet point on this thing...):

-I completely agree with JYPE not letting Bambam apologize. That was the shittiest of shitty moves because if someone is responsible enough to own up to it. LET THEM. And this happened right after Bambam told fans to call him out when he makes a mistake because he doesn't truly know the culture (oh, but nobody remembers this of course~)

-You guys have a right to conclude whatever you want about Mark. You do you. He was on my shit list until I realized guilty by association isn't my preferred course of action (especially with how /he/ was reacting to their antics during his last visit home).

-Jackson hasn't been in /multiple/ IG dramas. He's been in two. One of which you summarized perfectly. The other... not so much. Yes, he could have handled it better, but to assume his "haters gotta hate" response was to the people trying to educate him is half cooked at best. Yes, fans were trying to educate them nicely, but the /vast/ majority of comments on his (AND HIS MOTHER's) IG were taunts and death threats. Boy fucked up good, but let's not pretend this didn't play a big part.

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As a current ahgase, I buy the albums to support them + for the photobooks but I genuinely think their discography is mediocre (don't @ me fellow ahgases I'm planning to fly just to see their concert). the song with hyorin made me hope for eyes on you but jb keeps disappointing with how messy his verses are. the chorus/bridge are fine but everything else... yikes.

tbh I feel kinda bad for mark (obviously going by outsider's pov here) because those are likely his friends from hs and it isn't like he's grown with them past his mid-teens. it just seems like he's holding on to them because he hasn't had the chance to make new friends in LA :/ and yikes, didn't know that bam wasn't allowed to apologise. my got7 shitlist is currently jackson >>>>>>>> bam, jb, jy, mark >>>> yj and yg (yg's such a sweet kid but his chris brown stanning ajsdhakjdsgb WHY)

Edited Date: 2018-05-24 06:21 am (UTC)

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lol. i get that. I've definitely bought less than great albums from bands I liked b/c I wanted to support them.

Why is Jinyoung on your shitlist? As far as I can recall, he hasn't done anything? But I also don't pay attention to them the way I used to, so maybe I missed something.

Yeah, I get not wanting to judge Mark b/c of his LA friends, especially since they probably aren't all that close anymore. I personally as never a Mark stan, so he was never really someone for me to drop (though I liked him in the group and the group as a whole), but his non-reactions and quietness gives me pause. I'm not blaming him for other people's actions, just kinda side-eyeing him. Plus, people are allowed to have faves who've messed up (see the term problematic faves), they just have to acknowledge the wrongdoings of their faves and not make excuses for their actions. I know I have plenty of messy faves, who people have dropped for understandable reasons, and I definitely have faves who I still like but more from a distance, I took a step back in liking them, not getting as invested in them after they messed up.

I hope my discussion of got7 here doesn't make it sound like I hate the members or think people are wrong for continuing to like them. I just kinda wanted to discuss with people who'd actually liked the group my mixed feelings about them, and why I took a step back from them even though once I had been a huge fan of them.

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I mostly like them for their personality, their music is kinda 50/50 for me (like wistfuldaydream said, I support them and am seeing them in concert but I don't think they got the best discography out there) and I especially got a soft post for Jinyoung which really hard-carries my stanning for the group. All these scandals have also left me with mixed emotions. I'm a person that holds a grunge for a long time so seeing the messes some of the members have gotten themselves into kinda make me want to take a step back sometimes. But I'm a little hesitant to comment on the "scandals" because I'm not sure what has been proven to be a misunderstanding and what's still relevant, I think my opinions are mostly driven by the emotions I got from the scandals so I feel like I wouldn't be the right person to give my two cents on it. Like idk if I'll ever be able to see Jackson the same way again, and JB actually is one I'm mixed on because I might be judging him on false accusations (as it seems based on some comments in this post) yet that doesn't make him problem-free either. Mark is often judged on the company he keeps (his LA friends) but even that isn't as bnw as some want to make it (and the points that you made are pretty good which makes me want to check myself on what exactly I base my judgement on bc I was one of those people side-eyeing him for his LA friend group).

I do these posts because I like doing them and reading the comments, tho when there's a lot of drama I just look at my inbox like

because even tho I think the discussion is interesting I also try to keep away from drama because I realize it doesn't really benefit me or my mood to join in lol. ~~and yet here I am uhh~~

My comment is all over the place but just wanted to add that I don't think you came across like you're hating or anything, and I do enjoy discussion when people can keep it civil and give reasonable arguments to why they feel the way they feel etc. If we can't do that we just devolve into the kind of fandom-bubble where no criticism of your faves is allowed, and nobody learns anything.

Edited Date: 2018-05-24 09:02 am (UTC)

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i'm glad you find the discussion interesting, and i'm sorry if it's caused you any anxiety over some reactions it seems it's spawned. I initially just came into this post to look at pretty pictures and then got curious about the asterisk, and then I found myself in a whole discussion. I actually find it really cathartic b/c tbh, whenever I see news of got7, I get those same feelings I get whenever I see news of an ex or former friend, so it's nice to be able to discuss those feelings with other people who get it (whether they're still friends with the ex or not).

Yeah, a lot of the stuff that's upset people about this group isn't always so cut and dry, and I think everyone can relate to following a group for their bias and then having really mixed feelings when someone in the group (who's not their bias) messes up b/c you still want to support your fave and you still liked those other guys alright, so how to do decide to deal with those feelings is very personal and an individual decision.

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It's ok, got7 posts usually attract all kinds of commenters but I'm glad a lot of them (on omona, as messy as it sometimes can be lol) are here to create discussion but without malice (tho sometimes tone is hard to read over the internet).

I totally relate to your second paragraph, that is how I often feel about got7 lol, esp since I'm not as impressionable anymore compared to when I was a younger kpop fan and wanting to jump right in to defend my fave's actions, oop.

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his non-reactions and quietness gives me pause. I'm not blaming him for other people's actions, just kinda side-eyeing him.

ia except if jype didn't let bam apologise, they probably told him not to comment on it either, and him remembering his socials only once every three months doesn't help. I'm not sure which of his friends tried to get w/ ahgases using jackson's name but if he's still in contact with them, he's definitively trash imo.

Why is Jinyoung on your shitlist?

c/p from below: it was his 2016 got2day with mark (an offhand comment about how mark's driver's license photo was before the "white, handsome Mark"). I was gonna let it slide because I don't understand korean but him mentioning the skintone thing twice in a row in the vid puts him firmly in the middle of the shitlist. It's probably a cultural thing, but as someone who's asian and grew up seeing white skin glorified and whitening products normalized (+ getting creepy comments from strangers saying they like how pale I am), I'm really sensitive about colourism and how casually people insert it in conversations. also I think that the importation of east asian media/products is p insidious in influencing southeast asian standards of beauty so him reinforcing the "ideal" of pale skin was a huge n o p e.

people are allowed to have faves who've messed up (see the term problematic faves), they just have to acknowledge the wrongdoings of their faves and not make excuses for their actions.

this is why I stay away from stan twitter. I love got7 but ia I'd drag them to hell and back if they fuck up.

I just kinda wanted to discuss with people who'd actually liked the group my mixed feelings about them, and why I took a step back from them even though once I had been a huge fan of them.

oh no please, don't apologise! I love discussions like these (and also love any excuse to roast got7 because tbh it's fun haha).

Edited Date: 2018-05-24 08:38 am (UTC)

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Ohh, I forgot about that. I think I've gotten so used to that, that those kind of comments barely register with me any more. I think it's really common for people in the industry to internalize the standards that they're supposed to uphold, but it's another thing when someone comments on someone else. That's not good. I can see why it bothers you.

Yeah, stan twitter stresses me out. So much of fandom and news is on twitter, so I feel like I have to be careful to not be blocked by fan translators and BNFs. Like I've been blocked for making criticisms of people before that weren't even @ed at anyone, so I try not to say anything and just stick to retweeting, cause while it's annoying to deal with someone in my mentions, I get way more stressed when I learn someone's blocked me without even telling me why (their right of course, but it still gets to me). It's part of what I like about Omona b/c you can actually have discussions here.

Thanks! I just didn't want to be misunderstood. I'm really enjoying this conversation; it's very cathartic. I'd love to have this sort of discussion about some of the other groups I've stanned.

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(You're probably looking at your notifications and sighing at my name at this point, lol).

Just to clarify, I don't think you hate them. The hostility in my post wasn't so much towards you as it was towards witnessing the same thing over and over again and my temper finally boiling over. I used to let it go because 90% there is no point in beating a dead horse people want to embalm into a mummy, but I've seen the repercussions of incorrect information far too often to let it slide now. Omona was a good place for discussion, it might still be for some people - I loved coming here and talking in length about the most mundane regarding my favorite groups - but once the community decides they do not like a group, most of the discussions are neither fun to partake in nor based on facts (take for example those two links you posted to show JB's attitude towards homosexuality. Neither shows his stance and one is completely incorrect, and yet you have pages and pages of people stating he's trash).

When you start a discussion, you have to be ready for people to counterargue whatever you have presented, /especially/ if it's coming off as a fallacy. I replied to you because you obvious know quite a bit since they were formerly a group you liked, but mingling correct information with incorrect (because that evidence isn't correct) makes for a dangerous concoction for people who are just waiting for an in. You don't have to like them or their music, or even be lukewarm towards them. Heck, you don't even need a legit reason not to like them anymore - but I think it's only right to provide actual evidence because people /will/ read your post and take things as half truths for the sake of their own agenda (especially as a former fan)

Just like most of us don't discount the fact that they have fucked up (because they have in some cases and will do so in the future as well. That's what being human entails), people who think the labels are correct should own up to it when their argument isn't sound (and this isn't about you OP, but about the numerous times this has been addressed and resulted in silence, only to be brought up again despite being dismantled).

You don't have to reply to my post, but considering my previous discourse I think this needed to be addressed. I apologize if you took the brunt of my response, but everything else I still stand by lol

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I just wanted to say I appreciate your comments on omona posts because you seem to have a pretty good knowledge of the issues at hand and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to write these comments and respond to people to give another (or often clarifying) take on the discourse. I explained in another comment why I hesitate to do that but it's good there's other people that do it so yeah, that's what I wanted to add lol.

(Often you just can't expect people to make the effort to engage in a discussion beyond the superficial level (and online it's often harder even) but what I do like about omona (despite its flaws) is those instances when people that do want to have an actual discussion, esp when platforms like twitter or tumblr just don't give much room for that to happen I feel like.)

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Thank you. I'm not as active as I used to be, but I feel compelled to say something because in the 13+ years I've been into Kpop, I've never seen a group be as taken out of context and hounded like GOT7 (I've witnessed Ahgase get bullied off social media by some fandoms, 2016-mid 2017 was not pretty). It's utterly perplexing sometimes, but I can understand why you choose to not comment. If you don't excuse certain behaviors and hold them accountable when they /are/ actually wrong, I don't think it's bad to stay in your bubble and enjoy. Kpop is Kpop, and at the end of the day it's still just a means for entertainment.

(My issue with people who engage in superficial discourse is not so much that they don't know, it's the fact that they are so easily swayed by anything and everything, and then refuse to acknowledge when they are refuted. Maybe Omona still has honest discussions hidden in comment threads (the one you guys were having, other than the glaring stuff I had to point out, sounded quite fun. But for me the bad overweight the good and I follow Kpop for entertainment, so you probably understand why I'm so wary of this site.)

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As a current ahgase, I buy the albums to support them + for the photobooks but I genuinely think their discography is mediocre

Lol this is sorta me as well oop, I mean they do have some songs that I really like but also a lot of songs that just aren't quite there (but hey, music taste is subjective so *shrug*, I do like the fact that JY has (mostly) done songs that I like which is why he stays being my fave). I did become a fan mostly for their personalities.

Seconding the q about why JY is on your shitlist, what has he done? I think the only thing that comes to mind is a not-sure-if-problematic-but-might-be-questionable comment he mad about Mark's darker skintone in his predebut pics like a few years back, but other than that, I can't think of any.

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haha mark is my go-to when it comes to got7 music I don't mind (if it sounds cheesy he's prob involved lmao. I've developed the useless talent of guessing which of them is involved in a song).

Seconding the q about why JY is on your shitlist, what has he done?

it's what you mentioned! his got2day with mark. I was gonna let it slide because I don't understand korean but him mentioning the skintone thing twice in a row in the vid puts him firmly in the middle of the shitlist. It's probably a cultural thing, but as someone who's asian and grew up seeing white skin glorified and whitening products normalized (+ getting creepy comments from strangers saying they like how pale I am), I'm really sensitive about colourism and how casually people insert it in conversations. also I think that the importation of east asian media/products is p insidious in influencing southeast asian standards of beauty so him reinforcing the "ideal" of pale skin was a huge n o p e.

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I didn't know/remember he mentioned it twice :/

but yeah I admit I'm not as harsh on him as other because of my bias, and like to think that it's not as bad as it is and he might've since then learned to question that mindset because he hasn't made comments like that after that (AFAIK and maybe there hasn't been many opportunities for that hmm). But there isn't tangible evidence that I can provide to prove it so it really is just wishful thinking on my part :/

I understand your reasoning and don't want to downplay the harm that mindset contributes to, so he shouldn't be exempt from judgement either. And it's like you said because it's such a big thing in SK that it's not too far-fetched to think Jinyoung shares that sentiment.

I've grown to think and be vary of putting anyone on a pedestal (not that I really do that but I realized I kinda HAD with JS and maybe JY and now that JS went and kinda crushed that image it was sort of a reality-check for me to also think about how I perceive Jinyoung and etc).

I hope this made sense lol my wording can be a bit messy.

Edited Date: 2018-05-24 08:49 am (UTC)

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