So what's the truth then... can Twice (and any other k-group basically) sing??

[pineepie.livejournal.com]

Finally, an informative yt video that shows us how kpop business works... yikes, the way that kpop companies treat their idols is just stupid for me...
What do you think about points he made in the video and about that main/lead vocal and sub-vocal system? (is that system just an excuse to put some visuals in a group?... :P)
Did you know his blog "kpopvocalanalysis.net" before? If not I recommend you to visit this site, cause you'll find some interesting opinions regarding k-vocals there:P
Edit: I've changed this post's title just in case somebody thinks that I'm targetting Twice rn, which is not obviously^^

source: KitsuneMale (KpopVocalAnalysis)

Comments

[by-venoms-sting.livejournal.com]

I've been meaning to watch this video for a few weeks now so I guess this post will be my encouragement.

Did you know his blog "kpopvocalanalysis.net" before? If not I recommend you to visit this site so that it'll "destroy" your faith in some k-vocalists :P

Yeah I visited it a while back after an ontd post about popular singers with bad technique.

People didn't want to hear that their faves were poor vocalists so there was a lot of drama in the comments.

I think the only analysis I read back then were for Sunye and Yeeun cause it was before I got into kpop more so I didn't have interest in the other post cause I didn't know who a lot of the other artists featured were lol.

[paige-nevaeh.livejournal.com]

I replied to the wrong comment - sorry!

[pepsi-twist9.livejournal.com]

Link to blog: https://kpopvocalanalysis.net/

His POV towards hate is interesting. I get where he's coming from and yes, hate is a strong term and I've never really cared for people who say they hate specific groups. However I do think it's fair to judge a group or at least judge one's own enjoyment of a group based on the whole of their vocal abilities because at the end of the day being lenient about one's idol doesn't mean you'll ever enjoy a group's subvocal line.

If I don't think someone can sing or I don't like their attempts to sing I'm probably going to pass them off as a group. /shrug

Also, main vocalists is not that unique.
Look at TLC, look at Destiny's Child. It's a very specific structure in Kpop but it's certainly not that unique.

[thatsoohot.livejournal.com]

id say its pretty unique if the only examples you can think of is from over 20, almost 30 years ago. i can't think of one group in popular american culture that has that structure

[glider.livejournal.com]

the truth (and his main point) is it's misguided to expect Whitney Houston-level vocals out of idols and I-fandom as a whole needs to stop searching for reasons to invalidate TWICE's success. being able to sing isn't the most important thing with idols and idk where I-fans get this idea from, not even Korean people go to idols expecting incredible vocals (ever heard a K-netizen say "wow they sound good for an idol"?).

also a company doesn't need an excuse to put visuals in, the whole point of K-pop idols is visual. you watch them perform their songs, your favorite members are usually ones you find pretty, etc. there's nothing deep and artistic about this industry. I don't hold anything against people who are looking for good singers in the kinds of idols they stan but to hold this up as a standard for all of K-pop just makes zero sense to me.

/sorry if I sound mad, I'm a pressed Once who's tired of feeling attacked for liking TWICE no matter where I choose to get my K-pop news from :^)

[daceymormont.livejournal.com]

IA and you don't sound mad at all
I'm also a once and the hate is just ridic

[daceymormont.livejournal.com]

while I enjoy it when groups have good vocalists I also am totally okay when they aren't because after all kpop is a lot about performing and visuals and entertaining fans and not having perfect technique. though in an ideal world they'd get some proper training because I also don't want them to damage their voices

[rmarques.livejournal.com]

Lol, I remember the first time his site was brought up here. It was a mess of drama with people pretending they didn't understand what he meant when he said SNSD's vocal line was underrated while also not being spectacular, and when he said one of Brown Eyed Girls' members' technique wasn't as good as it used to be.

But yes, it's a good side.

[belintuchiha.livejournal.com]

pretty bummed there's no videos of BEG or was I blind lol

[msgrottesca.livejournal.com]

I really wish people didn't take this guy's every word as gospel tbh lmao.

[maknaeroli.livejournal.com]

mte lol drives me crazy

[sjtaazrz.livejournal.com]

I didn't think it was as informative as it could have been. Taking a quick look at the website it seems like he had a lot more he could have discussed.

The video was basically about how idols aren't really meant to be great vocalists anyway, many members aren't really there to sing (more to dance or be entertaining on variety etc.), the kpop machine doesn't' care about technique, and that claiming "they can't sing!" is a poor argument for disliking an idol group. All true points, but nothing that I haven't heard or said before.

I was hoping he'd have more clips to illustrate this points, but his main point seemed to be "don't be quick to judge and mean online" which might be a great message to his younger audience, but it all seemed like pretty basic stuff to me.

[sethelaezekiel.livejournal.com]

I think twices problem is that they don't have even one standout vocalist considering how large of a group they are and their performances leave a lot to be desired too

Look at blackpink none of them are particularly great singers but they're a small group and have charismatic performers so you don't have ppl ripping into them

[honey-baymax.livejournal.com]

"I think twices problem is that they don't have even one standout vocalist considering how large of a group they are and their performances leave a lot to be desired too"

This!

[dynamite-state.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry but this is a bit stupid imo, even if I ignore the preachy intro.

He's saying that everyone has the ability to sing if they get proper training.  No shit. Plus, most idols don't get said training, and the company is to blame. No shit. [2] The conclusion being that it's not fair to write off the idols cause their skills have yet to be developed even though they can be, which..huh? Am I not to form an opinion on what I am hearing at the present moment because the companies are shit and don't train the artists properly?

Also, he was really stressing how it makes no sense to judge a group's vocal talent based on the sub vocalists instead of the main ones. And he proceeded to say "look, Jihyo ain't half bad, right?". Sure? But what about the other 8 girls sis. Twice are known as the 9 membered group with only 1 singer. He brings up Dara in the video, for example, who is 1 out of 4 girls. The void is all that much more apparent the more struggle members you throw into a group...

And look, I have nothing against Twice. These little legends keep bringing one viral video after another, and at the end of the day I am entertained, which is the actual point. Idec about proper vocal talent or technique if I am honest, that is not what I turn to kpop for (or any music I listen to). I like what I like. The other day I was saying that I'd listen the f out of a full Dara album. Bom is like my favorite voice in kpop ever... But calling a spade a spade is not a crime, you know.

[msgrottesca.livejournal.com]

He's saying that everyone has the ability to sing if they get proper training. No shit.

I will never understand it when people say this, though LOL. There is such a thing as natural born talent. Just like my boy Seokjin will never be able to dance like Hoseok or Tiffany like Hyoyeon, some people will never be able to sing well. I have friends who have taken singing lessons for years who still come out the other end sounding like shit because they just don't have what it takes or they have no ear for music or they're tone deaf. Training fosters pre-existing talent more than it creates it out of thin air - it's very sweet and optimistic to pretend everyone can be good at everything if they try hard enough, but it's separate from reality.

[dynamite-state.livejournal.com]

Oh it's definitely because they are #1 in popularity. When you reach the top you inevitably become target #1, and it makes sense (to me anyway).

[donutism.livejournal.com]

the whole 'THEY CANT SING' thing isn't new, people have been trying to use that against SNSD when they first came out, and against a lot of groups as well.

i think the thing with Twice is that among 9 members, there is one strong singer.

Compared to 2/5 for RV, 2/8 or 3/9 for SNSD etc. And the fact that their strong singer isn't even that great..? Like, there is no Wendy / Yuju / Taeyeon in that group

[seulgibear.livejournal.com]

i'm just here to say i dont trust this guy since he told me btob hyunsik can't sing

[evilcoc0nut.livejournal.com]

[miyozari.livejournal.com]

man, i remember when we had a post about that blog. hell broke lose. a lot of 2ne1 fans were mad that he pointed out bom's terrible technique and that every snsd member is technically a better vocalist than her. stans don't seem to understand that there's a difference between having/developing a good technique and being talented. a bad technique can destroy the most talented vocalist.

[kimbafierce.livejournal.com]

But he also said Tiffany has a good technique, and we all know that's a blatant lie

[veryimportantu.livejournal.com]

idc as long as i like the music lmao

[baekpedaling.livejournal.com]

+1000000

[kewtah.livejournal.com]

I rly dnt take it that serious I just listen to whatever I like the sound of and if they aren't any good live then I just listen to someone who is. That's about it for me.

[msgrottesca.livejournal.com]

People seem to go way too extremist with Twice in either direction. One side acts like pointing out any of their flaws makes you a psychotic hater while the other side tends to cut them zero breaks at all and often refuse to admit Jihyo is decent even if she's not amazing.

I stan Jaehyo, Seokjin, Jeonghan... even as a trained singer myself, I don't stan based on vocals so while idols who can't sing don't deserve HATE for that lack of talent, it doesn't mean being self aware and admitting they have flaws makes you The Devil. Different strokes. None of our faves are above criticism.

Kpop isn't all about musical talent but I also think it's unreasonable to go after fans who do consider talent to be important. It's okay to have different standards - for me, I tend to go more for the variety idol type or groups that specialize in having good variety skills. But it's okay that some people prefer groups that specialize in singing, and it's also okay for them to think vocals should matter.

[giriboy.livejournal.com]

ooh, wait. who are your fave vocals, then? technically, ig. i'd only taken one yr of chorus so i know really, really little about technical aspects and i'm really biased against sopranos, mostly because i'm an alto and i just... don't have the range, tho i do know a lot of girls who did vocal training (and are more soprano / put w/in that section, but always sound like they're straining)

also, like, i don't care about super talented vocals in kpop and i focus more on tone 'cus i just think there's a lot of unpleasant tones in grps, even if they aren't bad singers (i don't know how good shownu's technique is, for example, but there's v few songs i like him on bcus of his tone... i also don't rlly like jeonghan's tone but i think he's an okay pop singer and has gotten better since debut, so... w/e)

[redgreendress.livejournal.com]

gawd how I hate this debate. It's annoying when people go on and on about how their mediocre fave actually has great technique, yes, but these posts tend to be just as annoying (not OP's fault of course, and the vid seems good, I mean the kind of discussion 'vocal analysis' attracts). In general (not just in kpop) I like some singers who have bad technique, some who are average and some who are above average. And there are singers rated as amazing whom I for whatever reason don't like. The only people who actually appreciate singers only by how good their technique is are experts, and even they can't reach a perfect consensus. It *is*interesting to read what classically trained singers or vocal analysts have to say about pop singers, sure, but this always turns into ppl trying to find validation for something that doesn't actually need validating. It's like having to consult professional chefs to find out what kind of food you like.

[rosiemotleymind.livejournal.com]

Hmm music is so biased even from a "trained" point of view that I always took what he said with a grain of salt. I enjoy what I want to enjoy. I know these idols aren't trying to be the next Mariah(rip her vocal chords)or anything I just wish they got support to help their longevity in the future. But whatever I'm still gonna bop.

[jaequeeragenda.livejournal.com]

i dont know didly about singing lol or what is proper or not xD if i dont cringe and the song is fun then i dont mind xD

[senshicalico.livejournal.com]

this is one of those things where I'm kinda glad I don't know about that stuff, lol. As a writer / editor most books have been ruined for me so at least I can still listen to music without being super critical of it.

[black-swan87.livejournal.com]

this is one thing that really gets me about kpop. these people spend years as trainees but the majority of them can't sing, dance, or have stage presence, what the hell were they doing when they were trainees?????

[ariellm13.livejournal.com]

Image management, fan service, and how to look for cameras.

[kimbafierce.livejournal.com]

This video is pointless tbch, what exactly did her debunk?
Whatever tho, I don't care if my fave sound like a strangled goat on stage as long as they can record the song fine.
I'm never gonna watch them live anyway, and at least I get a song to jam to

[horichansenpai.livejournal.com]

Amazes me every time how triggered people get when that blog is brought up lol

[miwa201.livejournal.com]

mte

[minho-lover.livejournal.com]

as long as i like the song im good, aint got time to be analyzing vocals n shii tbh lol

[tanknz.livejournal.com]

true, people care too much!

[theharleyquinn.livejournal.com]

idk i think this notion that we're not supposed to care about vocals bc k-pop is visually driven isn't totally fair. idols are supposed to be specialists in certain fields, be it dance, visual, variety, or vocals, but vocals are the only field where the wank really comes out. some fans just need to take it less personally and some fans need to take it less seriously.

the vast majority of idols have bad technique but i still like talking about how their voices sound from an aesthetic sense, and there are plenty of idols whose voices i enjoy despite having bad technique and vice versa.