small article on Korea and lesbians

[loverboy.livejournal.com]

“Are you a femme? Would you like to about bars with lots of butches? A lot of singles go to them, you know.”

The bartender spoke in unfamiliar terminology, and over on one wall it says “Only For Ladies”. Here there are plenty of the “queers” (homosexuals, bisexuals, and transgender patients) that lesbians look for. The Monthly Chosun came here and listened to their stories.

The Monthly Chosun met with two of them. Both went through a lot of pain in the process of coming out. When she was in elementary school, Ms. A came out to her older sister and younger twin sisters, but her older sister seemed to react badly. Ms. B came out to her mother two years ago, once could not leave the house, and in the end lied by saying she was wrong in thinking she was gay. Ms. B said, “even now whenever I talk to a girl on the phone my parents ask who it is, and I get nervous.”

Among lesbians there are various words used to show their personal character. Those who take the masculine and assertive role are called dykes or butches, and those who take the opposite role are called femmes. Most times, the say, the masculine one has to support her love. Ms. A said, “butches have the toughest time among homosexuals, because they have to work hard to be economically able to take care of the women they physically love as women.”

They said, “the hardest thing is that we can’t openly show our love because of what other people will do.” When men talk to them and ask them their phone number, they can’t clutch their lovers and say “she’s my girlfriend”. Ms. A said, “one time this guy asked me for my number, so I said a person near me was my lover, but he said I was lying and I should kiss him while the guy watched.”

According to the group Solidarity for LGBT Human Rights of Korea (동성애자인권연대), there about 100,000 Korean homosexuals. Choi Hyeon-suk, a candidate with the New Progressive Party, said, “because there are many sexual minorities who do not live openly it is difficult to get exact numbers.” It is impossible to know precisely how many more people of differing sexual orientations there are.

But they denied any difference between heterosexuals and homosexuals. Ms. A said, “we are people in love. We love each other the same way straight people love each other. We may not have opposite bodies. But other than that, our hearts are exactly the same.”

sources: Korea Beat and chosun

Interesting how they expect the more dominate woman in the relationship to pretty much be the man. Guess Koreans are still very much influenced by a heteronormative lifestyle, even if they're not straight.

Comments

[aunts.livejournal.com]

“we are people in love. We love each other the same way straight people love each other. We may not have opposite bodies. But other than that, our hearts are exactly the same.”

Pretty much ♥.

[livvyxo.livejournal.com]

I was just about to quote that bit but I'll just say
THIS
instead XD

[berrycherry.livejournal.com]

Interesting how they expect the more dominate woman in the relationship to pretty much be the man.
Oh, I get this all the time! "Oh, you are such a feminine young lady, so you are basically bottom?" or "So your girlfriend has short hair? She's a real dude, huh? Really agressive and all?" Uhm. What? No?!
It's complete and utter crap to define me or my partner (or rather all lesbians or bi girls) with the help of how we dress or style our hair. Come on. Superficial much?!

I feel just so sorry for gay couples in asia. Just imagining I would have to hide gives me this really uncomfortable feeling :/

[hospitalise.livejournal.com]

IASM oh my god, just because you're in a relationship with a person of the same sex it doesn't mean one of them is going to take the masculine role and one of them is going to take the feminine role. how about two people who respect each other and want to stay together without any classifications >:(

[hospitalise.livejournal.com]

i hate the classification femme and butch so fucking much, and the idea that you have to fit into one of them or else. i'm a black belt and i wear skirts every day, what the fuck am i

but i really do like this article. Ms. A said, “we are people in love. We love each other the same way straight people love each other. We may not have opposite bodies. But other than that, our hearts are exactly the same.” ♥

[hoyah.livejournal.com]

black belt in what? :D that's so cool.

and i love skirts, too.

[hoyah.livejournal.com]

Guess Koreans are still very much influenced by a heteronormative lifestyle, even if they're not straight.

Even in the US you find heternormative societal influences in non-heterosexual relationships. It's not just straight people stereotyping, either.

[loverboy.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know. But it seems more extreme in Korea, which makes sense, but it still surprised me.

[curiousnono.livejournal.com]

KOOLIE TOWN! goodie article!!!

poor amber n taemin prolly go thryu so much wahhhh... *single tear drop frum my c-ute face*

[loverboy.livejournal.com]

Whoa, I didn't know you were still around.

[hoyah.livejournal.com]

i lost you at cinho

[jaybomb.livejournal.com]

“we are people in love. We love each other the same way straight people love each other. We may not have opposite bodies. But other than that, our hearts are exactly the same.”

♥ ~LOVE KNOWS NO GENDER~ ♥

[stage-persona.livejournal.com]

Nice article… as many here, I hate the fact that they want to recreate heterosexual stereotypes with homosexual couples.
But it happen all around the wolrd, not just in korea

[loverboy.livejournal.com]

It's hard though when movies, books, television and just the people around you are all heteronormative.

[chaosmyth.livejournal.com]

Interesting how they expect the more dominate woman in the relationship to pretty much be the man. Guess Koreans are still very much influenced by a heteronormative lifestyle, even if they're not straight.

I was thinking about the same thing too as I read the article. Of course "roles" exist within homosexual couples in the west too, but saying that the woman who takes the "masculine" role HAS to work hard to support her lover sounds kind of extreme o.o;;

[rawthorne.livejournal.com]

Roles exist in every relationship, homosexual or not. They're derived from shared emotional labour and the choices one makes to take on duties that will help the relationship survive. That can be one partner working while the other doesn't, that can be sexual roles, whatever.

I agree with you that they have absolutely nothing to do with masculinity or femininity and the sooner we shed those illusions, the more equal our society will be.

[fashionbang.livejournal.com]

augh. so frustrating.
especially when you live with someone who thinks she can pretty much tell who is or isn't gay by how they look (locations of tattoos, how they dress/talk...). you'd think living in the bay area for 4+ yrs would make her more open/stereotype less. -_-

[hoyah.livejournal.com]

you live in the bay area?

[cruel-disorder.livejournal.com]

Interesting how they expect the more dominate woman in the relationship to pretty much be the man. Guess Koreans are still very much influenced by a heteronormative lifestyle, even if they're not straight.

I want to challenge this statement. It's easy to make the correlation that 'top'/'bottom' or dyke/femme dynamics, when found in gay relationships, seem strikingly similar to how straight couples typically operate. However, I think to generalize and say that if gay Koreans choose to express their relationship under those terms, they've been 'influenced' by the heteronormative lifestyle, is to ignore the fact that they chose to love each other that way.

Nowadays, we can accept that there are many variations of the 'straight couple' dynamic. We see independent and strong-willed women as well as nurturing and home skilled men. We also see dependent women who rely on the man being the breadwinner of the house. All these types of relationships are acceptable. We place emphasis on the fact that it's their business in how they choose to set the standards of their relationship, as long as it is free of abuse of any kind. So why can't we accept that there are some lesbian and gay couples where the top/bottom & butch/femme DOES work for them, just as there are other homosexual couples who do not fit into that dynamic? Why do we automatically assume that they must have been 'influenced' by the heteronormative lifestyle, as if they saw how straight people dated and then rushed to emulate it? For that matter, butch came from wanting to break down traditional gender roles to begin with.

I know there are many terrible stereotypes about gays and lesbians, that all gay men are feminine and all lesbians are manly, etc. But those gays and lesbians who choose to live their life that way are not perpetuating those stereotypes and should not be seen that way.

[cruel-disorder.livejournal.com]

I also want to add that I know there are many gays and lesbians who believe the same thing, that butch/femme couples are only imitating straight couples. Well, why is it that the butch is seen as taking on the man's role? Isn't that making assumptions about how the genders should behave? Is the butch somehow less of a woman or trying to BE a man?

If we can all respect the way each of us choose to live our lives, not make assumptions and pass judgment based on what you see, we can direct our attentions to fighting the oppression and ignorance of others and institutions that we all suffer from. :\

[kokorabbit5.livejournal.com]

“we are people in love. We love each other the same way straight people love each other. We may not have opposite bodies. But other than that, our hearts are exactly the same.”

*thumbs-up* :)b

I'm really glad people here have a good mentality about this, too. That probably sounds dumb of me, but I know a lot of people (ok, bio-family, rather) who would just say crap. :(

[czarny.livejournal.com]

Awwww :')

[czarny.livejournal.com]

Omg but I want girly boys plz.

[loverboy.livejournal.com]

[jesusluvsjaeho.livejournal.com]

And damn do I tire of the imaginary rule that there MUST be a "man" and a "woman" in every relationship

THIS!

[familiarplaces.livejournal.com]

the stereotype of having a dominant 'butch' in a lesbian relationship is popular in america too, not just korea.

also this reminds me of my friend and his shirt. it says 'i wanna be a housewife' lmao ♥

[hoyah.livejournal.com]

rofl

i want that shirt but it wouldn't be as funny on me

[czarny.livejournal.com]

ㅋㅋㅋ. 응~

[jesusluvsjaeho.livejournal.com]

cha. i can't even stand the male/female gender roles in heterosexual relationships. perhaps this comes from one too many men thinking that because they have a penis they have the right to dominate me. like i don't have a brain. i apologize if that is off-topic but i wonder how the butch/femme, stereotyping will ever end as long as the whole dominant male/submissive female stereotype pervades cultures.

[spaarklingwine.livejournal.com]

“we are people in love. We love each other the same way straight people love each other. We may not have opposite bodies. But other than that, our hearts are exactly the same.”

I dunno why it's so hard for more people to understand this point! Love knows no bounds!

One of my friends is a staunch Christian, and sometimes we'll get into a fight about homosexuality, and she'll start sprouting stuff like, "Homosexuality is a sin! God says so! it's in the bible, and the Bible is GOD'S WORD."

...-_-''

[nene718.livejournal.com]

More like the word of Roman dudes and the dudes that translated it.

[marochi-x.livejournal.com]

Tbh, I do sometimes see lesbian/bi couples as one being "femme/lipstick" and one being "butch." I don't see the harm in it, especially since I don't voice it. I'm not insulting the person in any way. I probably wouldn't know though, if it's insulting. But I still see them as two men/women.

Anyway, I think it's mainly because many have grown up being used to the girl-and-boy, pink-and-blue, skirts-and-pants, you know?
So it's kind of natural to think of it that way, imo.

[cruel-disorder.livejournal.com]

girl-and-boy, pink-and-blue, skirts-and-pants, you know?
So it's kind of natural to think of it that way, imo.

Very interesting observation. I'd just like to point out that the pink-blue, girl-boy, skirt-pants thing is not natural at all and we're socialized at birth to think the genders should be separated by such superfluous things.

But you're right that that probably has an influence on how we come to view the world. :(

[cloud-honey.livejournal.com]

That's what Heechul and BoA came for!

[shanny-w.livejournal.com]

I wish people could be more forward in their thinking. Do souls have gender? Love is all about souls ~*mingling*~ to me lol Just give it some time and people will see how beneficial same sex couples are to the planet and our resources!

[marochi-x.livejournal.com]

Do souls have a gender?

THIS. I think only the body and influence/brainwashing make a gender.

Also jfc your icon change. I still don't know what movie that's from lol.

[nene718.livejournal.com]

Interesting how they expect the more dominate woman in the relationship to pretty much be the man. Guess Koreans are still very much influenced by a heteronormative lifestyle, even if they're not straight.

I don't think that's necessarily just a Korean thing. I see a lot of that here in the US.

[dominique-franc.livejournal.com]

love is love shouldn't matter who its with

[thenylonkid.livejournal.com]

That pic....where is the guy on the right's torso?

edit: hahaha nvm he is bending over...!

[nijiiro-no-iro.livejournal.com]

It does seem a little bit more extreme in Asia than here... but there are definitely a lot of the same stereotypes in America. Like the idea that there is always a man-role and a woman-role. I like other girls and I could care less about the length of their hair or the clothes they wear. If I like them, then I like them. Who the fuck cares?