shinee's jonghyun addresses accusations of him making a misogynistic statement

[byeolbyeol.livejournal.com]

SHINee‘s vocalist Jonghyun addressed the accusations of him making a misogynistic statement on his radio show.

Late July 11 evening, Jonghyun posted to his Instagram, “I believe that one shouldn’t overreact to small happenings. I also think that the fundamental basis of a life of learning is that you should try to fully understand people’s views, and fix your wrong opinions. The reason why I’m posting this is because, as a man with a mother and a sister, there are talks going around of me being a misogynist and that I’ve said misogynistic statements. That is not true, but if those stories are going around and I stay quiet about it, some people will believe that I’m a misogynist who says misogynistic things. That would be a really big problem in my life, and a stain that I would not be able to erase.”

He continued, “I am not a misogynist nor did I say misogynistic things. If what I’ve said offended anyone, I want to know exactly what I said that has offended you, which is why I’m communicating like this. While talking about music on radio I said that women were blessed beings, and regarding this issue I will continue to post on SNS.”

He then took to his Twitter to post a transcript of a conversation between him and singer Nine of band Dear Cloud that has caused the controversy. In the recording, he said, “Women are blessed beings. They are the biggest inspiration to all artists. They make all poets write poems, all painters pant, and all singers sing.”

Regarding his statement, he tweeted, “What I said about women being blessed and the source of my inspirations doesn’t mean that they are below me.” He further continued, “People are wondering if I consider women as objects for the sake of creativity, but there’s nothing in the world that is used as objects for creation. One simply expresses what already exists through art.”











@.jonghyun.948: i live life by the notion that you shouldn’t give big reactions to small matters. and i believe that understanding the perspectives or thoughts of people who criticize my faults, and continuing to fix my incorrect ideas, is a fundamental part of life. the reason i am writing this is because as a man who has a mother and sister as his family, there’s word going around that i’m a misogynist or that i made comments belittling women. that isn’t true, and if i keep my mouth closed while knowing that such word is going around, some people may think of me as a misogynist or someone who made comments to belittle women and i’ll become cemented as that kind of person; but that would be far too grave of a matter for my life, and it would leave behind an indelible stain.

i’m not a misogynist, and i have never made comments belittling women.

i’m communicating like this because if my comments made anyone uncomfortable, i would like to exactly know which part it was. i said that women are a blessed existence while discussing music on radio, and to follow, i will put up the related remarks on sns.

i don’t know how to connect the remarks in question on instagram, so i will put them up on twitter.


t/n - this particular sentence — “i’m communicating like this because if my comments made anyone uncomfortable, i would like to exactly know which part it was” — has the danger of coming across as defensive or accusatory in english. however, written in korean, jonghyun uses deferential wording that makes his tone sound cautious and self-effacing. he says “exactly know” in the sense of “knowing / understanding with precision.”

----

@/realjonghyun90: to say that someone’s existence is blessed, and that their existence gives me inspiration, does not mean they’re below me.
subjects of inspiration exist transcending (the concept of) “above and below.”
people are discussing whether i only see women as tools for creative work, but there’s nothing in the world that gets “used as tools” for creative work.
“some thing” that exists is expressed through art; this is all.

t/n - i added quotation marks to clarify the terms he's trying to emphasize in his tweet.











[Transcript] 150625 Blue Night:

(Discussing Wouter Hamel’s "G.I.R.L.S. I.N. T.H.E. C.I.T.Y.!")

Nine: The reason I chose this song in particular was because it was apparently “dedicated to all women living in modern times in the city.” So I looked up the lyrics, and they say, “When you were alone in the city / Something was bringing you down / Did you forget that you're lucky? / To have someone who wants you around.” Those are the lyrics. So it’s a song where you can really feel Wouter Hamel’s kind of.. dark designs to be loved by all women.

Jonghyun: So in the end, you have to write a song like this in order to receive love.

Nine: Of course.

Jonghyun: I’m so gonna write one. ㅎㅅㅎ

Nine: (laughs)

Jonghyun: That, how should I say, um.. they’re a blessed existence, women.

Nine: Gasp! Do you think so?

Jonghyun: I think that way.

Nine: How come?

Jonghyun: What I mean is, the existence that gives the greatest inspiration to all artists..

Nine: Ah, muses!

Jonghyun: I think that existence is women.

Nine: Ooh.. that’s interesting.

Jonghyun: To artists, considerably.. they make all poets write poetry, and all artists paint pictures,—

Nine: Wow that’s cool, to hear it that way.

Jonghyun: —and make all singers sing songs.

Nine: I see. But I also think of it in a different way.

Jonghyun: Yes.

Nine: Moreover, I’m a woman who writes and sings songs, right?

Jonghyun: That’s right.

Nine: So from a man’s perspective, they could perceive women as muses like that, but as I’ve been doing art from a female perspective, I think I have a slightly different point of view.

Jonghyun: That’s right.

Nine: So when I was younger, I used to think, “Ah, men are so lucky,” — that kind of thing a lot.

Jonghyun: Ah..

Nine: And that it looks really good if you sing and make music as a man, but as a woman it’s really difficult to appeal (to others) through music.

Jonghyun: Yes, yes, yes.

Nine: Well, I think I thought that sort of thing before, too.

Jonghyun: Oh, that.. I agree with that opinion as well.

Nine: You know what I’m saying, right?

Jonghyun: I absolutely understand what you mean, and I think that’s the trend all over the world..

Nine: Right.

Jonghyun: I don’t think it’s just a problem within our nation.

Nine: Mhm.

--

T/N - Jonghyun isn't saying women are blessed /because/ they inspire artists, but rather that they inspire artists because they are blessed.











@dearcloud_nine: i hope you didn't misinterpret the context if you didn't understand it correctly. it's been an upsetting night.







source(s): soompi, @realjonghyun90 (1 / 2 / 3), @jonghyun.498, @sullaem (1 / 2 / 3), @dearcloud_nine

soompi did him kind of dirty there by using an out of context comment from the conversation, but: i'm glad that he used an sns platform to not only clarify himself. tbh, which is more than some people have done. he easily could have gave a half assed apology and called it a day but he opened up the option for people to call him out / "educate" him on a public platform which is something that should be acknowledged. he followed two akgae fans (ie: fans of singular members of the group) on twitter who had sent messages either tearing into him or taking up his offer to discuss and people are assuming that he did so so he could message them and talk with them about it which is... interesting. but yeah.

Comments

[iznanassi.livejournal.com]

jonghyun seems like a nice guy .-.

idk what to make of what he said in or out of context tbh i see both sides

[bamboolover.livejournal.com]

This "scandal" is definition of reachin. It almost level of SJWs on Tumblr and their obsession with findinf something problematic about anyone. You need to really project high level of bullshit in order to find that interview misogynistic at all. He should drag Soompi instead.

[timetobegin.livejournal.com]

Tumblr level nonsense indeed. People project their misguided ideas onto everything at this point and it's annoying as fuck.

I didn't feel the quite was offensive out of context, and seen in light if the conversation became interesting, actually. Nice to see a male and female performer discuss gender in the music industry (although they didn't go into that deeply).

[audiograms.livejournal.com]

i have never been prouder.

[jrt131n.livejournal.com]

The fact that he is willing to have a conversation so that he can understand what the issue was and how he could learn from it is amazing, because most of the time, the moment someone does something that one would consider "fucking up" all people get is an apology, but do they really know what they did? So Jjong is a smart kid, and kind of understand both sides. Do I think he meant it in a bad way like some are seeing it...no not at all. But everyone is gonna see it differently.

[mamamoos.livejournal.com]

mte!

[mamamoos.livejournal.com]

what a good dude

[torontok.livejournal.com]

Regardless of how you view his comments, you can''t deny he did well by reaching out and opening a platform for discussion rather than trying to brush it off (Se: Nuest Aron's bs aplogy on his radio comments)

[iznanassi.livejournal.com]

I'm convinced both Aron and Prince Mak killed their groups' international fanbases with their asshatery

[pepsi-twist9.livejournal.com]

Ugh, this scandal is the definition of reaching. He's not wrong in saying women have been inspiration for ages. But he also does not say that that is all women are good for which would be the idea being pushed by "objectifying women." He's simply saying that women have the ability to inspire.

[angela-derp-otp.livejournal.com]

I see nothing wrong with what he said? It was a very open conversation happening where Nine was giving her perspective as a (I assume straight) female, which is great tbh,

The concept of a muse in a strict historical and mythological way is indeed female, but in modern art a muse is a person (regardless of gender) that inspires. I heard a snippet and although my korean is superrr rusty right now I didn't sense anything offensive from the conversation they were having.

Also a lot of women in art find in other women their own muse. IDK I think people who thought he was being misogynistic have a very lineal way of thinking.

People who stan him are so lucky lol.

[jrt131n.livejournal.com]

I honestly thought what he said was really pretty. Like I was reading a poem or something. So I was really shocked to see that someone people were taking what he said and being all ruffled...

[atopworld.livejournal.com]

I had no idea this was even an issue? I read it the first time without the whole conversation, understood what he meant, and continued about my day. I saw the above conversation posted, but it didn't even cross my mind as to why they were posting the whole thing again. Shocking "scandal", but he is super willing to open himself up to be informed of what he does wrong and apologize correctly. I respect him for being able to that.

[bubblyshades.livejournal.com]

same

[sra-interesante.livejournal.com]

sometimes i like how jjong seems to be aware of what's happening inside the fandom, he actively uses twitter and visits fanblogs and stuff .... but at the same time that's a problem because i'm sure at some point he goes to the wrong place and read some hater long rant

i'm just glad he wont "overreact to smalls matters" because haters dont need anyone attention

[byeolbyeol.livejournal.com]

tbh, i think that's exactly what happened here? the conversation was from almost three weeks ago and i only saw a few i-fans who were a bit "????" about the comment when it was just that one part before the entire conversation was translated in full. but there wasn't any mention in media so i wouldn't be surprised if jjong stumbled on people talking about on some message board or pann or something.

[odd-fish-stick.livejournal.com]

Omo what kind of king of clarification!

[lolylen.livejournal.com]

this makes me wish i stanned him. he's always been great.

[pikapika217.livejournal.com]

Well GO THE FUCK AWF!!!

if only more idols were as willing to learn from their mistakes and legitimately apologize for them.

[adlyeith.livejournal.com]

I really don't understand what there is to be offended about, and I say that as a woman. When I read that comment I was proud, honestly, and thought that it was a sweet thing to say.

I'm honestly getting so sick and tired of seeing people just LOOKING for a reason to go off on someone for being 'misogynistic' and Jjong is probably the furthest thing from it. He's such a sweet, genuinely good guy and just ugh. I'm so sick of people.

[icedevil0289.livejournal.com]

I think looking at it as a stand alone comment, it might have come across as an emphasis on the the idea that women's roles in society are more passive and they are more inspirations than anything else. It definitely makes more sense within context of the whole conversation.

regardless, I hope more conversations like the one nine and jongyhun had happen more and more discussions about misogyny in the industry occur. I appreciate what nine had to say on the matter

[iznanassi.livejournal.com]

for me even in the context of the conversation it was a bit meh, like i reacted the same way nine did. like it's nice that he thinks that but it kind of alienates women in the industry + ignores the fact that women are alienated. but he acknowledged that pov right after so it was less meh. i don't even think he thought what his statement implied, just that with that statement alone that's what it came off as. idk if that makes sense but idk how else to put it :/

idk if it actually became a big deal or anything but it didn't need to so i'm glad he opened up rather than get defensive. based on what byeolbyeol said it's in no way comparable to what mino said.

[byeolbyeol.livejournal.com]

this is why the he had to address it. (i was wondering if it was, tbh, i was told some k-shawols were bringing this up last night.)

--

for those who may be wondering, this whole issue blew up within k-twitter because select kshawols rather untactfully used the current song mino controversy (regarding his misogynist line on smtm) as an opportunity to pull out jonghyun’s statement from last month and portray him in a positive light in contrast to mino. it backfired because the quote being retweeted lacked the full context of jonghyun’s conversation with nine, and only showed the line about women being "blessed" and inspiring artists. once the quote was seen out of context by other knetizens, the misunderstandings and accusations grew until they eventually reached jonghyun personally.

suffice it to say that if this type of misunderstanding can happen between people who all speak the same language, throwing a language barrier into the mix creates even more potential for miscommunications, misinterpretations, and unnecessary hurt.

please, when you see statements that appear to be controversial, wait for more than one translation and full explanations of context before you jump to conclusions and begin pointing fingers.

(and let this also be a lesson not to brag about/prop up your faves just to contrast with & cut someone else down. it’s just.. tacky.) (source: sullaem) http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sn1dpn

[bomsnose.livejournal.com]

"and let this also be a lesson not to brag about/prop up your faves just to contrast with & cut someone else down. it’s just.. tacky."

this so much. it will always backfire. humbleness, etc.

[baboboy.livejournal.com]

omg I wish I could like his music to stan for him tbh

[premonitioner.livejournal.com]

jjong has always been great for stuff like this, i remember when he got a shitton of hate from ilbe for supporting trans rights

[summer-sowon.livejournal.com]

i love him so mUCH

[misspoirot.livejournal.com]

Eh but i dont see anything problematic...

[leopolitan.livejournal.com]

i think he meant well and hes not a misogynist, but i interpreted nine as subtly like...not calling him out but adding a correction to his statement, because its still sort of a paternalistic and heteronormative view to have

[sballet06.livejournal.com]

MTE

[ababobaby.livejournal.com]

he is such a beautiful person inside and out

[magicpineapple.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad he's open to not only listening but actively discussing & learning about how what he says may be construed as something else entirely.

His comment(s) did not offend me personally, but I can see how others could take it offensively or in a negative way (although I don't think that was his original intention, at all).

It's nice to see such maturity & willingness to grow. Four for you, Glen Jjong! :)

[mamamoos.livejournal.com]

yup! it's so important for people to understand that everyone can take things differently rather than just getting defensive but they rarely do. you may have the best intentions and still offend someone because everyone is coming at statements from a completey different angle as a unique person with unique experiences. the person being called out does not need to take things personally. he's setting a good precedent

[kris-kt.livejournal.com]

He's a great guy, happy that he clarified himself even tho what he said wasn't an issue~

[dreamer-easy.livejournal.com]

Though I'm only a beginner at learning Korean, I must go look at the original Korean for these exchanges, if only to find out what the word being translated as "misogynist" is and what it means. I'm grateful for the translators' notes, as always - an awful lot of Korean meaning, such as the level of politeness or humility, can't be conveyed in a direct English translation.

ETA: IIUC, the (basic) term Jonghyun uses is 여성혐오하다 - "to hate women", which is exactly what "misogyny" means. 혐오하다 "to hate" appears to have a much stronger meaning than 싫어하다, which can just mean "to dislike".

(As usual with these idol controversies, I can't understand the original Korean well enough to figure out whether Jonghyun really did say something questionable or not! But, like him, "I believe that one shouldn't overreact to small happenings." :)