[Comment Inception] AKP OP-ED "The unending conflict between international fans and Korean fans"

[xalexandriam.livejournal.com]

Original AKP article: OP-ED: The Unending Conflict Between International Fans and Korean Fans (Choice excerpts below)

A recent event I remember happening is when a certain international EXO fan went to Korea and filmed EXO fans. In the video (not the original which was taken down), she was told by a Korean fan (you can barely hear it above the crowd's noise), and then got slapped by a Korean fan in line because she didn't hear / understand what was being asked, and she didn't stop. It was a clash between two people, not between two nationalities, but the comments on the YouTube video quickly made it into a battle between two races. I saw Korean comments claiming that they felt like they were animals in a zoo because a foreigner was filming them, when it clearly had to do more with what goes on in a fandom, not what goes on in a country.

After that, the most recent clash I saw happening is the stance of different groups on Super Junior-M members. At first, I didn't really consider it a difference between i-fans and K-fans, until I started looking through posts on Korean blogs that claimed only i-fans said to accept Zhoumi and Henry as 'full' Super Junior members, but that they had no right to claim any of these things because they're just i-fans and they don't buy anything.

Why does this rift exist? Mostly it's because of the cultural differences. What most Koreans see as obvious doesn't seem too obvious to i-fans, and what a lot of Korean fans see as a big deal doesn't seem like a big deal at all to i-fans. One of the points that Korean and international fans clash the most on is the topic of being conservative, with Koreans saying some clothes are too short and too revealing while to Western fans, it's something they see on a daily basis in Western media.

The OP-ED basically states that a lot of the issues boil down to cultural differences -- something we all already knew. It just gives examples.

From NetizenBuzz:

Reader request. This post is from Gasengi, a site that translates international netizen comments for Korean netizens. This post in particular is in response to the allkpop op-ed "The unending conflict between international fans and Korean fans".

"Am I the only one who didn't know that such conflicts existed?"

"Henry and Zhou Mi have already been with SJ-M for a while and are clearly under SM so why does it matter at all whether the fans acknowledge them or not? ㅋㅋㅋ These fans are hilarious, as if their opinions on the issue matter at all ㅋㅋㅋㅋ"

"It seems that it's not the Korean fans but the Chinese fans who are making these claims and causing a rift. They claim all of the Chinese members are better like Hangeng is the best in SJ, Victoria is the best in fx, Fei is the best in miss A. Even in EXO, Koreans Xiumin and Chen always receive low votes. It's good to support members from your own country but they're crossing the line sometimes...."

"After reading the op-ed, it seems to have been written because of the EXO issue. I didn't know that the foreign woman who was kicked out of Inkigayo was a controversy. Even if it wasn't, EXO fans are always causing trouble because they're so young. They always get into fights with broadcast officials at events. They're told not to film and yet they stand there with DSLR cameras and get caught;;; They even follow vans around in groups and jaywalk."

"I looked up EXO and wow, this nugu fandom is crazy ㅋㅋㅋㅋ One of them even slapped a foreigner just for taking a picture with a camera... Way to make Korea look like a racist country ㅋㅋㅋ There's even another instance where a Japanese EXO fan tried to jaywalk in front of SBS and got caught and had her tickets taken away so she just knelt down in the middle of the road to beg and cry for her tickets back ㅋㅋㅋ This fandom is globally insane."

"I'll still never forget how international netizens made Koreans to be a joke for 'overreacting' about T-ara's imperial Japanese flag issue."

"This allkpop article seems to have been written purely to make Koreans look bad... damn anti-Koreans."

"I saw on a TV report that Japanese fans who came to Korea to see their idols have had bad experiences where they'll be robbed by teen Korean girls ㅡㅡ Can fans please show some respect?"

"The writer of this op-ed is insane. He doesn't take into account any of Korea's culture, society, and sentiment and makes Koreans out to be racist people deserving of criticism just because we don't fall in line with THEIR standards of right and wrong. These type of people never even try to understand things from our perspective because they're too busy judging another country's culture against their own."

"I really hate the foreign fans at SNSD concerts. They'll buy thousands of dollars worth of merchandise and sell them back to other international fans for double, triple the price. Korean fans had to wait 2 years for these concerts and wait in line since the early morning to get a chance to buy the merchandise but end up with nothing because the foreigners buy them all out ㅡㅡ They also ignore the rules of Korean fans. 80-90% of foreign fans are fans of individual members so they make slogans and posters for one member while Korean Soshi fans are 9=1. They ignore the rule that everything should be 9=1 and go ahead with their individual slogans anyway."

"I agree, I seriously hate it when international fans ruin the '9=1' motto that Korean fans worked so hard to protect by creating these individual member fandoms."

"Even after explaining that Koreans had no idea that blackface is globally recognized to be racist and that Koreans do not intend it to be racist, the international comments are still so angry."

"The thing about international fans is that there wouldn't be a problem if they just enjoyed our idols as is but instead they're inserting their unwanted opinions into Korean issues and society without fully understanding any of it. Yeah, they had a big part in creating the Hallyu wave but they should understand that it was the Koreans who supported the idols for them to get to that stage where they could launch into Hallyu."

"I bet this op-ed was written by a Japanese."

"Chinese sasaengs are worse than Korean sasaengs.."

"International fans are a bit... stupid. They don't understand how important issues about the army are to us and don't understand why we get so angry over seeing the imperial Japanese flag, calling us petty for getting so worked up over it.."

"It really gets me riled up when I see international fans hate on Korea as if we're the only ones with problems when they're the ones who don't try to understand our culture at all..."

Source: AKP | NetizenBuzz

I know some people don't like just posts with netizen comments, but I find the comments pretty interesting since we rarely see any kind of perspective on what they think about international fandom and the criticisms international fans make about Korean media.

Comments

[miwa201.livejournal.com]

There are some valid points, like it kinda pisses me off when i-fans can't see the importance of the army in SK and why so many people are pissed off at celebrity soldiers. But there are also some pretty terrible comments like this one:
"Even after explaining that Koreans had no idea that blackface is globally recognized to be racist and that Koreans do not intend it to be racist, the international comments are still so angry."

Seriously? Because there is no intend to be racist, it somehow makes it okay?

[izbetterthanu.livejournal.com]

MTE on everything. I also kind of agree with that comment about the EXO fandom as well. Looking from the outside, I can see a lot of sane, awesome people in it, but the majority looks deranged. Or it's a very prominent minority, one of the two.

[anthonymarie.livejournal.com]

oops. can you please put the block of text under a cut? thanks :)

[xalexandriam.livejournal.com]

lol oop @ me. I had the comments behind a cut, I just coded it wrong.

[pepper.livejournal.com]

The writer of this op-ed is insane. He doesn't take into account any of Korea's culture, society, and sentiment and makes Koreans out to be racist people deserving of criticism just because we don't fall in line with THEIR standards of right and wrong. These type of people never even try to understand things from our perspective because they're too busy judging another country's culture against their own.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!
That one comment about blackface though...

[modestgoddess79.livejournal.com]

my days are numbered in this fandom

[rennehollic.livejournal.com]

"Even after explaining that Koreans had no idea that blackface is globally recognized to be racist and that Koreans do not intend it to be racist, the international comments are still so angry."

oh okay. I'm going to start to tell jokes offending koreans but I've NO intention on being racist. I'm just joking and it makes it okay *inserts sarcasm*

[every-journal.livejournal.com]

I see what you're trying to say, but I've seen people do this today even. I'm not even in the fandom but all I saw yesterday and today is people laughing about somebody singing "The loof is on fire". Even though it's generally known that Asians in general have no distinct difference between the r and l. In Korean it even is the same letter (ㄹ) and depending on its place it sounds more like an r or an l. But I guess that is all okay since Asians dont go batshit crazy when they get mocked for this. And my dad still calls Koreans leprecauns because he believes they're all short. /shrugs/

I believe the whole world needs to have a little bit more tolerance towards different cultures. The way you view the world is coloured buy your heritage and your upbringing. Telling somebody once that Blackface is a loaded figure from the past is not enough to educate an entire country on this subject and force a change in the way they see a person with his/her face painted black. Like how we all believe kanibalism is a bad thing and yet there are tribes of people in the world to whom it is a sacred thing used to either absorb the powers of your defeated enemies or honor the deceased by eating their flesh.

Different cultures, different believes and thus different taboos.

[kaila-09.livejournal.com]

"I agree, I seriously hate it when international fans ruin the '9=1' motto that Korean fans worked so hard to protect by creating these individual member fandoms."

As a Sone, I often see individual fandoms as the root of the fanwar within the fandom itself. It's okay to stan someone from the group but some people just go overboard. I can say the same thing about pairing fandoms.

[nicole8991.livejournal.com]

lol paring fandoms. Try to say something a little bit negative about them and fans go batshit cray cray *coughespeciallytaenycough*

[hisjulliet.livejournal.com]

Korean blogs that claimed only i-fans said to accept Zhoumi and Henry as 'full' Super Junior members, but that they had no right to claim any of these things because they're just i-fans and they don't buy anything

OH REALLY

[xalexandriam.livejournal.com]

LMAO RIGHT?

my albums and dvds say otherwise.

the truth has been revealed...

[asth77.livejournal.com]

Allkpop is a japanese!!

Re: the truth has been revealed...

[royu-kiyo.livejournal.com]

AKP is tokyohive's sister. Both sites must be Zainichi.

[ashiva.livejournal.com]

I always had impression that typically most Korean fans are much more fans of certain member than fans of the whole group while i-fans are more of group fans. Idk maybe it's just the case with some other Korean groups since I don't really follow SNSD much.

[allegsiseu.livejournal.com]

i'm going to assume that the article at the source touched on army and japan relation issues since some of the comments are riled up about it.

but you really cannot deny that when it comes to fandoms, korean fans are cray.

that they had no right to claim any of these things because they're just i-fans and they don't buy anything

umm...excuse me? let me show you my boxes and boxes of k-items. i don't even buy western albums. i think there will always be a rift between korean and international fans tbh. even the most open minded people cannot understand some of the cultural differences and if they do, they don't agree.

[djlancerock.livejournal.com]

lol fan culture varies widely from country to country. but korean fans are obvs better and they're too busy being better to notice that.

[digitalqueen.livejournal.com]

"International fans are so racist, but let me make racist comments about the japanese and especially the chinese".

Also, they are aware blackface is racist but it's not their intention so that somehow makes it all ok.

I agree with some of the stuff though, I wouldnt like to be filmed by a total stranger, especially after she was asked to stop (she might have not understood, but you can cleary sense if someone's upset about being filmed+telling you something while probably angry). And I also agree that we dont understand all the cultural context of things that happen. That said, some situations are still questionable.

I'll never understand how possesive korean fans are of their idols, they seriously dont want them to do well internationally so they dont have to share them with anyone(yet they feel proud when they do).

[merely-a-facade.livejournal.com]

I'll never understand how possesive korean fans are of their idols, they seriously dont want them to do well internationally so they dont have to share them with anyone(yet they feel proud when they do).


It's the same kind of mentality with tweens/hipsters who are like, omg i know this totally underground band but as soon as that band does well, they're claiming that the band are "sell outs"

[turdferguson.livejournal.com]

Re: blackface

I hate this fixation on INTENTION. not just Koreans but I mean everybody who ever did anything problematic and they get called out on it.

You can intend for your own message to be positive, negative, or neutral. Unfortunately, intent and interpretation rarely ever match up and imo it is so fucking useless to debate intentions because it is the IMPACT of your own message that causes all kinds of reactions.

Ugh all I'm saying is blackface, regardless of whether you were making fun of black people, dark skinned Koreans, paying tribute to black people, WHATEVER. The impact of your message stays the same: the mere images evoke a hurtful past and we are still feeling the effects of it to this day. That's it. Now you know it's problematic, atop making excuses for it.

[xalexandriam.livejournal.com]

mte.

intent is not magical and regardless of what you INTEND, it still does not take away the fact that blackface will always invoke racism and a past that black people are to this day still trying to combat.

[floydsastar.livejournal.com]

"Even after explaining that Koreans had no idea that blackface is globally recognized to be racist and that Koreans do not intend it to be racist, the international comments are still so angry."

"It really gets me riled up when I see international fans hate on Korea as if we're the only ones with problems when they're the ones who don't try to understand our culture at all..."

how many times do people have to explain history behind it and why it is NOT ok even if the intention wasn't malicious?? if you want international fans to be more understanding of your culture, how about you start doing the same for us?

[itsjustjodie.livejournal.com]

*Claps for agreeing*

[lenkaxchan.livejournal.com]

the comment about blackface goes along with the other bolded one (...)These type of people never even try to understand things from our perspective(...)
they should take their own advice tbh

[mad-nux.livejournal.com]

oh koreans

[turdferguson.livejournal.com]

Honestly I get the frustration is because we're not actually communicating, we are just commenting on each other's comments but like sometimes I think it's a little absurd that these kids, international and Korean, are so territorial over their own idols

[lexissexist.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think it's interesting how that works. It's a reflection of the business model used, IMO, and a fun example of people being hyper defensive about the status quo.

[fukkthedumbshyt.livejournal.com]

Exactly. To me its like we're playing a game of basketball and you're thinking you scored a point when in reality you just shot the ball in my basket. Moron.

[jeit91.livejournal.com]

i-fans are the worst..

[feel-my-mind.livejournal.com]

Final Fantasy 8. My FEELSSSSSSSSSSSS

...sorry, had to say that.

[hearttaek.livejournal.com]

How sad is it that the reactions we're getting from netizens are reactions to a poorly written inconclusive and not well thought out article written by allkpop.

And yes there are solid points but i cant help but think that if these ideas were presented with more facts and written better, we'd have gotten better reactions. Not better in a sense that they'd be postive questions but better in a sense that their reactions would have come from a better place have they been given better insight on how things are.

But lbr the reason allkpop wrote this is to create some "war" to increase viewership.

[merely-a-facade.livejournal.com]

But lbr the reason allkpop wrote this is to create some "war" to increase viewership.

Truth. AKP is really a terrible "news" source and that's using the term loosely. More or less, a bunch of stuff translated & written last minute, with no analysis whateversoever. (Then again, it is Kpop so I don't expect much hardhitting analysis....)

[jia-zhang.livejournal.com]

Fandom is, and always is, for fun. People need to stop with the fandom infighting and ruining things for other people. Such a waste of time.

[kimiko1387.livejournal.com]

Thank you for saying this.

[erbalurbal.livejournal.com]

I agree that you can't make wide claims about a country based on netizens, or a small group of stupid fans, but some of their retorts are not helping their defense. This whole "netizens opinions are important" thing is really annoying to me though.

[jesymphony.livejournal.com]

Am I the only one that think it's perfectly okay for Sones to have an individual bias within the group? Honestly speaking there are 9 girls, there are bound to be a couple you don't like as much as some of the others. I'm all for 9=1 (though the math has echoes of Only 13-ers which makes me a little dubious) and can appreciate what the k-fandom is trying to do, but at the same time I don't think i-fans having a bias should be held against them.

[atelierlune.livejournal.com]

I appreciate the concept being forwarded that there is no deadweight in the group and that they're all equal (I hope that's what it means, I feel you when you mention the only 13 feels), but how is such a thing enforced? Do they bully people who come out holding a sign for a single member? Because there's no way that anyone is going to successfully enforce that rule outside of an environment where someone could physically stop someone else from verbally or otherwise cheering their bias.

[bubble-monkey9.livejournal.com]

"I bet this op-ed was written by a Japanese."

lmao

[princesalunar.livejournal.com]

"...they're just i-fans and they don't buy anything"

D: how dare you? ¬¬ many international fans buys lot of things from Korea and we have to pay the shipping costs that many times are more expensive than the album and we have to wait like 20 days in some places to have our merchandise, all to support our favorite artist.

[millie (from livejournal.com)]

I ordered Nell's Escaping Gravity on June 10th and I still haven't gotten it. This is what i-fans go through to support their faves. It's not like all we do is download things illegally and make racist comments about Korea.